Battery Discharged Overnight?

[Gardd]

I took a close look with a bright light and a magnifying glass - the battery definitely has a very slight leak around the plastic caps on top. Hard to see but it's there.

It's still under warranty so I'll demand a replacement on Saturday and at the same time I'll hit the parts counter for a new relay - and I'll hope this will be the end of this week's problems!

[Gardd]

THE HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING...



I took the fan relay out last night and left it out. Recharged the battery overnight (it's definitely leaking slightly as I said) but it'll get to 90%.

This morning I put the battery back in and the ABS and oil lights come on dim.

Start the car, the ABS and oil lights go out, but the Airbag light comes on and stays on.

Stop the car, the Airbag light goes out but the ABS and oil lights come back on.

I put the fan relay in and after 20 seconds the fan comes on.

But wait, there's MORE! Now, periodically the dash emits a series of beeps which may mean a fault in the airbag system (as I read online just now).

AND... while the car is off the tach needle twitches very slightly once in a while.

[insert a whole string of cusswords here]

I left the fan relay in, but I disconnected the battery and will just let the damn car sit for a while while I mow the lawn and treat myself to a beer afterwards.

I Googled around for discussions on bizarre behaviour like this and saw one where the owner suddenly dealt with a whole series of things like I am, including a failing battery - all the problems went away as soon as he changed his battery. And that's just what I'm going to do tomorrow morning (I'd do it today but everything's closed due to our Canada Day holiday).

[shorod]

Faulty Transmission Range Sensors (TRS) have been known to cause goofy electrical issues as well, but I'm not sure I could tie it to any of the issues you are experiencing. It may be worth searching the forum for though.

-Rod

[Gardd]

Got back from the service center and well, the situation is as clear as mud.

They put the battery on the tester and they say it's okay. 12.67 volts, 781 amps, passed the temperature test. So they refused to give me a new one under warranty.

They said it's normal to see a few drops of acid on top. Say what? Is this true or bull?

I am not convinced myself as the battery won't go past 90% on the charger.

I also didn't get a fan relay as they don't stock these but at this point who knows if the relay is indeed bad or if the blower fan running while the car is off is really a symptom of something else.

As for the car itself, it runs fine on the road. However:

- The airbag light that stayed on yesterday is off now when the car is running. I still get beeping once in a while though.

- The ABS and oil light still come on dimly when the car is off; they go out when it is running.

- In the parking light at the service center I heard a clicking noise under the dash behind the glove box. It's intermittent and the clicking seems to occur at the same time the speedometer twitches.

- I put the fan relay back in and sure enough the fan came on though the car isn't running. So I pulled it.

Anyway, I'm stumped, worried, and really fed up. I guess I'll have to sink some money into having a mechanic figure it out. I'm no good at trying to figure out if there's a short somewhere.

I will look up info on TRS problems & side effects though.

[shorod]

I realize this won't be of much help either, but if you don't find where others have had similar symptoms from a TRS, carefully check your major ground connections. The dimly glowing lights and clicking relay sounds a lot like a grounding issue.

-Rod

[Gardd]

Thanks, I'll definitely keep the grounds in mind. Is there a way to check with a multimeter fairly easily instead of following wires in the engine compartment or under the car somewhere?

My buddy is coming over this evening - we'll try the battery from his car in the Taurus just to see what happens. At least this would be a no-cost way of proving that the battery is or isn't the culprit. The garage told me this morning that it's normal to see a bit of acid on top, I am not convinced.

[Gardd]

The ground on the neg battery cable is solid. Haven't tried to check any others.

Tried the battery from my buddy's car last night - no change.

After the battery swap I moved the ignition relay to the fan relay position and let the car sit - the fan didn't come on. I put the ignition relay back leaving the fan relay slot empty and the warning lights on the dash went out. Started the car, put the fan relay back in, and turned it off... and the fan came on in a few seconds as did the warning lights.

I also had a new symptom for a couple of minutes - the power door locks wouldn't stay down. Lock the doors and a second later they'd all unlock. WTF? But then they started operating normally again.

I have a slight suspicion that the aftermarket anti-theft system might have something to do with all this. I bought this car as a pretty new used vehicle years ago. The original owner had installed the system and I immediately found it really annoying and I always keep it switched off. But if the battery is removed the system will re-arm as soon as the vehicle has power again. I don't know what brand the system is; all I have is a one-page instruction sheet listing the model number as AS-1202 with no manufacturer info. If this were my system I wouldn't want my name on it either.

While tinkering last evening I started the car a number of times in order to watch the dash lights - and I also turned the aftermarket system on & off half a dozen times. Anyway when I finally turned off the aftermarket system for the last time the car seemed normal. All the dash warning lights were off and the airbag light didn't come on while the car was running. As of this morning the lights are still off and the battery's charge is ok.

I could be very wrong in suspecting the aftermarket anti-theft system. I read somewhere else that the TRS is an input to the OEM Remote Keyless Entry system and maybe that's why I had few weird minutes of magically unlocking doors. But the aftermarket system is also tied into the RKE.

Anyway later today I'll put the fan relay back in then I'll take the car out for its re-learning drive, and we'll see how it behaves. If it acts up again I think I'll ask the garage later in the week to see if the OBD is throwing any error codes.

In the meantime I'll stop boring everyone with my long posts and I'll be back when / if there's something concrete to report...

[Knifeblade]

U may be onto something with the aftermarket anti-theft thing. Think of this, most anti's draw power continuously in order for their sensors to pick up some no-key entrance or fooling around with the ignition, such as that. Now, I don't know exactly where the installer sliced into your wiring, where he placed any sensors, or where he accessed the power supply {but I would bet it is a constant on lead}. Try to "unpower" the thing completely, you have a draw that is weakening your battery, and possibly doing very bad things to the normal electrics of your ride.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by Gardd

I also had a new symptom for a couple of minutes - the power door locks wouldn't stay down. Lock the doors and a second later they'd all unlock. WTF? But then they started operating normally again.

Have you ever noticed your "Door Ajar" light remaining on even after the doors were closed? This is a pretty common issue on the Taurus (and some other Fords) due to a sticking door ajar switch integrated in to the door latch mechanism. I don't think it would be the source of all your other issues (I too think you should continue to investigate an aftermarket system install) but may at least allow you to check one thing off the "Gremlins" list.

-Rod

[Gardd]

Never had a door ajar light problem and thankfully it wasn't one of the gremlins on the list this past week!

I'm glad & relieved to say that the car has been just fine since my last post on Saturday - knock wood! No mystery lights, the battery seems to be holding its own, there have been no airbag warning beeps, and I haven't heard that relay clicking behind the glove box. Tach hasn't twitched either.

I'm not convinced the battery is in perfect shape despite what the garage told me after testing it but I haven't seen any more leakage on top and its voltage isn't bad at about 12.5 volts this evening, a bit higher than the value I obtained this morning. I'll keep measuring it a couple of times a day for the next while.

As for what was going on, who knows really but my money is on the stupid aftermarket anti-theft system being behind all the weirdness.

Without having a full understanding of all the electronic systems & how they work together, what I'd like to think happened is the fan relay went bad and the fan ran all night without our knowing it. Drained the battery way down, and the aftermarket system went into some kind of sustained error state that affected the GEM (or something) when I tried starting the car on Sunday June 26th.

This past Saturday when I turned the aftermarket system on & off (half a dozen times in 2 minutes with a few engine restarts after the battery swap test) it may have reset.

I haven't put the fan relay back in yet - I have had my fill for now and I'm going to leave well enough alone for a few days. Besides I can't find relay in stock at the local shops so I guess I'll have to visit a Ford dealer for a new one. If I put the old one back in and it is indeed bad I want to have a new one at hand to replace it with.

[Gardd]

Here we freaking go again.

The car has been absolutely fine since my last post. Battery's been holding its charge at between 12.3 and 12.5 volts.

I get home from work this evening and the first thing I hear when I walk in the door is "the car won't start".

Checked the battery, it's down to just over 6 volts.

The car started and ran normally yesterday.

I haven't bought a new fan relay yet. I guess my previous theory may be out the window but I am still suspicious of the aftermarket anti-theft system as ten days ago the weird problems went away after I turned the system on/off a number of times.

Take a look at the attached picture and let me know if you think the droplets & dried whatever-it-is looks normal to you.

[danielsatur]

Originally Posted by danielsatur

Some unswitched circuits are connected to BAT fuse's, see owners manual.

1) Disconnect the Neg side of the battery and connect an AMP meter in between, check on how many Amps are being drawn with ignition key off.
2) Isolate BAT fuses one at a time until there's no amps being drawn.

Do a Google ''Youtube auto battery discharge''

[shorod]

You cannot really do the above mentioned test for a good 45 minutes after closing all doors and connecting the current meter. There will be some items that are not yet in standby mode so the current draw may still be around 1 amp until that happens.

Have you verified that the brake lights are not on when this discharge happens? I've been seeing others, as well as myself, that have been having brake light switch problems lately with their Ford products. Mine was fine, then left me stuck at work one evening with a completely dead battery (around 4 volts).

-Rod

[Gardd]

I haven't seen anything on at all - no brake lights, nothing at all.

Will be testing as much as I can this weekend with my multimeter - thanks for the reminder re: letting the car sit for 45 minutes to ensure everything is powered down.

What do you think of the battery picture - the droplets & obvious dried accumulation on top?

On the way home from work this afternoon I'm going to stop by Wal-Mart and buy a new battery anyway. I don't like the droplets I see on top of the existing battery and as I said way up in an earlier post when these shenanigans started, it won't go past 90% on the charger. I just don't trust it.

[shorod]

I don't really think the droplets are anything to worry about, but I don't know the history of the car to know if those droplets have been there awhile, if they may be indicative of an overcharge, or if they are due to something unrelated to the battery (last time it was cleaned, an underhood cleaner that was used, etc.).

-Rod