1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

[mike@af]

Superb work, mate. I enjoy following along! Amazing work without any special equipment.

[ScratchBuilt]

Cheers, Mike - I always try to do as much as I can with the usual basic modelling tools; hopefully anyone reading my posts thinking 'maybe I could try that too...' doesn't immediately feel '...but I can't, because I don't have access to such-and-such equipment'. Yes, I have my small mini-lathe available, but I wouldn't say that I would be lost without it...especially not when I can still make my tyres on a cheap £ 35 bench drill, and can make wheels using a knife, saw and compass-cutter!

So, what have I been doing this week? Firstly, I tried using the brush-on greenstuff to add the welding on the trailing arms:



As you can see, the one on the right has had the liquid greenstuff applied, the one on the left has conventional two-part greenstuff. Hmmm...for this job I felt the liquid wasn't quite what I wanted - it's too thin to build up into a welded seam. Yes, it fills holes and cracks and could be useful in creating a rough textured surface (engine / gearbox parts perhaps?), and it dries quickly, so I'm sure it will come in useful.

Next I set about checking the suspension geometry. The trailing arms at the back are effectively fixed, but the front end was 'variable'! I spent some time adjusting the length of the main wishbone sections in order to get the camber about right, then checked the connecting links . The problem here was that the original links allowed the wishbone to flex, rather than moving in an arc. The solution was to pin the connecting link straight into the wishbone:







Throughout all of this the time-consuming part was constantly checking and re-checking the measurements, rather than actually making the parts! With the wishbone lengths fixed I can start making plans for the outer bodywork knowing that the wheels aren't going to start moving around...

So, that's about it for tonight. I've a little more greenstuff to add to the trailing arms, and I'm finishing the 'bolts' which will connect the bottom end of the rear dampers. I'm not planning on getting much more done - it's Le Mans next weekend, so there's other things to get ready rather than modelling!

All the best,

SB

[icon_modeler]

Simon,

Nice work so far, you're doing your usual outstanding work.

I do have a question though and maybe I have missed you explaining your approach to the wheels but do you have photo evidence of the wheels you are making or are you making them up as you go?? I'm of the belief that the wheels should be exactly the same as those of the 1/12th Tamiya 935 so I'm wondering if you have picture you are working from or are you taking some liberties in this area??

Thanks

[freakray]

Originally Posted by icon_modeler

I'm of the belief that the wheels should be exactly the same as those of the 1/12th Tamiya 935 so I'm wondering if you have picture you are working from or are you taking some liberties in this area??

The interesting thing is the Tamiya 935 isn't completely correct in the wheels in the kit, as the teams seldom used the cast magnesium wheels. The rear wheels in the Tamiya kit are the cast magnesium rims which the teams used in the rain with rain tires. Teams quickly adopted the 2-piece BBS wheels for racing due to the fact that they are repairable if damaged whereas the magnesium wheels were not.

[icon_modeler]

Originally Posted by freakray

The interesting thing is the Tamiya 935 isn't completely correct in the wheels in the kit, as the teams seldom used the cast magnesium wheels. The rear wheels in the Tamiya kit are the cast magnesium rims which the teams used in the rain with rain tires. Teams quickly adopted the 2-piece BBS wheels for racing due to the fact that they are repairable if damaged whereas the magnesium wheels were not.

Ray, you say "teams", do you mean privateers??

Yes the wheels in the Tamiya kit are only half correct you are right and the Scale Motorsports detail set provides the missing wheels if you can afford to go that route. I don't think these wheels are modular because I have never seen a black modular wheel back in this period. All the period correct pictures I have of the factory Moby Dick show it with black or dark colored wheels that would be consistent with the Magnesium wheels used by the factory on the '76 car that Tamiya depicted. So I'm very interested to find out if Simon has pictures that he is working from or some other info to support the modular wheel fitment on his Moby.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by icon_modeler

Ray, you say "teams", do you mean privateers??

Yes the wheels in the Tamiya kit are only half correct you are right and the Scale Motorsports detail set provides the missing wheels if you can afford to go that route. I don't think these wheels are modular because I have never seen a black modular wheel back in this period. All the period correct pictures I have of the factory Moby Dick show it with black or dark colored wheels that would be consistent with the Magnesium wheels used by the factory on the '76 car that Tamiya depicted. So I'm very interested to find out if Simon has pictures that he is working from or some other info to support the modular wheel fitment on his Moby.

Both the factory and private teams ended up running the BBS wheels, being the 2 piece design that was more forgiving on the budgets if the rim was damaged. The black/dark wheels of that era were mostly magnesium cast single piece wheels which were initially favored for their lack of weight, were soon case aside due to cost of replacement.

[icon_modeler]

Originally Posted by freakray

Both the factory and private teams ended up running the BBS wheels, being the 2 piece design that was more forgiving on the budgets if the rim was damaged. The black/dark wheels of that era were mostly magnesium cast single piece wheels which were initially favored for their lack of weight, were soon case aside due to cost of replacement.

Yea, I got it, I'm not arguing with you on the points you have brought up but the MOBY did NOT run modular wheels unless they were black. In which case I have never seen a black modular wheel in 1978. So show me a picture please and prove me wrong. Also he is making a 5 spoke wheel for the front which is absolutely wrong because the car ran BBS wheels on the front just like the ones in the Tamiya 935 kit. Thanks for your replies but they do nothing to answer my questions that are directed at the builder, Simon. Now please moderate and don't be argumentative.

[ScratchBuilt]

Steady, guys...!

I had a crisis with the wheels some time ago: should they be one-piece 5-spokes (similar style to the 917, etc), or some sort of split-rim (eg BBS)? As I don't have any official drawings to work from, I'm reliant on photos. When the 935-78 first ran at Silverstone in practice, it was certainly using BBS at the front, and another type of wheel at the back - with the conical covers fitted; I have a photo showing this combination (see page 11, post#161). Later in the meeting and during the race it used the covered wheels at both ends - and this is how it ran at Le Mans, too.

The dull colouring of the rear rims with the covers fitted suggests to me that they are not the same as the (brightly polished) BBS rims - however, I don't have a photo showing what the wheels look like underneath when the covers are removed. My assumption is that they were the 917-style one-piece wheels. The second '78 chassis rebuilt by Freisinger Motorsport uses split-rims all round, similar (but I don't think identical to) the period BBS.

For my wheels, I wanted to add some visual interest to the inside of the rims, but also to make sure they had sufficient strength - that's why I've added the rings of bolt-heads and the five-spokes. These are not meant to be the 917-style five-spokes, rather just generic detailing - better than leaving them blank, I felt. Once the model is finished, you're unlikely to see any of this...nor the bolt detailing around the inside of the brake discs, or any other number of small details! For the outside of the rims, I'm going to make the wheel covers - so the car will look as it raced.

I didn't think it was a good idea to make 1/8-scale BBS centres from hundred's of pieces of strip-styrene, only to have them covered up and hidden from view...and if they were visible, they would have to be structural - and I couldn't see how I could do this (other than umpteen layers of photo-etch glued together, and I'm not a fan of photo-etch!).

So, what I've got is partly my own design, but based on the photos and the information I have available. Remember - the whole car is partly my own design: I don't have genuine chassis plans to work from to get all the measurements (unlike the 917, 908, etc). The only definite measurements I have are basics like wheelbase, length, height, etc. There's going to be lots of little differences - but as long as it all goes together and looks like it should when it's finished, I'll be happy.

Not sure if this answers the historical questions, but it hopefully explains why I'm doing what I'm doing!

SB

ps. on another note - looking back through the thread to find the Silverstone photo, I was surprised to see so many other photos which were missing. I've not actively deleted any of these myself...has anyone else experienced this? I use Photobucket, and had thought it was okay...

[icon_modeler]

Originally Posted by ScratchBuilt

Steady, guys...!

I had a crisis with the wheels some time ago: should they be one-piece 5-spokes (similar style to the 917, etc), or some sort of split-rim (eg BBS)? As I don't have any official drawings to work from, I'm reliant on photos. When the 935-78 first ran at Silverstone in practice, it was certainly using BBS at the front, and another type of wheel at the back - with the conical covers fitted; I have a photo showing this combination (see page 11, post#161). Later in the meeting and during the race it used the covered wheels at both ends - and this is how it ran at Le Mans, too.

The dull colouring of the rear rims with the covers fitted suggests to me that they are not the same as the (brightly polished) BBS rims - however, I don't have a photo showing what the wheels look like underneath when the covers are removed. My assumption is that they were the 917-style one-piece wheels. The second '78 chassis rebuilt by Freisinger Motorsport uses split-rims all round, similar (but I don't think identical to) the period BBS.

For my wheels, I wanted to add some visual interest to the inside of the rims, but also to make sure they had sufficient strength - that's why I've added the rings of bolt-heads and the five-spokes. These are not meant to be the 917-style five-spokes, rather just generic detailing - better than leaving them blank, I felt. Once the model is finished, you're unlikely to see any of this...nor the bolt detailing around the inside of the brake discs, or any other number of small details! For the outside of the rims, I'm going to make the wheel covers - so the car will look as it raced.

I didn't think it was a good idea to make 1/8-scale BBS centres from hundred's of pieces of strip-styrene, only to have them covered up and hidden from view...and if they were visible, they would have to be structural - and I couldn't see how I could do this (other than umpteen layers of photo-etch glued together, and I'm not a fan of photo-etch!).

So, what I've got is partly my own design, but based on the photos and the information I have available. Remember - the whole car is partly my own design: I don't have genuine chassis plans to work from to get all the measurements (unlike the 917, 908, etc). The only definite measurements I have are basics like wheelbase, length, height, etc. There's going to be lots of little differences - but as long as it all goes together and looks like it should when it's finished, I'll be happy.

Not sure if this answers the historical questions, but it hopefully explains why I'm doing what I'm doing!

SB

ps. on another note - looking back through the thread to find the Silverstone photo, I was surprised to see so many other photos which were missing. I've not actively deleted any of these myself...has anyone else experienced this? I use Photobucket, and had thought it was okay...

Thanks Simon, That is exactly the answer I was looking for and expecting from you. Yes, this is your baby and it is not my place to tell you how you should be building it. I was only interested to know if in fact you had some pictures that I have not seen. Thanks again.

On your missing pictures, I know Photobucket had a massive change over a few months back with how their website runs and the options that are now available. They say that this "Should" not have effected any picture links but I can't help but think that with all of that going on and as many peoples pictures that they are hosting that some links would no doubt have been disrupted. Maybe try deleting the links in the effected posts and relinking them.

Keep up your fantastic work!!!

[ScratchBuilt]

Hi Derek,

I'm pretty sure that photo in post#161 of the '78 at Silverstone with the mis-matched wheels is the only one I've got like that - every other time you see it in the race or at Le Mans it's got the dished covers. I'm assuming it also used these rims at Norisring and Vallelunga - but you don't see many photos from those two.

Of course, given that the wheels are easily removable, there's nothing to say I can't make another set later on in the build! This is the first time I've made the wheels completely from scratch - I'm happy the basic process works, and the solid foam tyres can be more of a structural element than if they were flexible rubber: it's only the centre disc of the wheel that needs to take the load - the inner and outer rims only have to be solid enough to stay in shape.

Regarding Photobucket, I'll probably have to have a few re-linking sessions at some point - I haven't checked the 908 thread yet...

Got to go - the alarm goes off at 3am tomorrow for Le Mans!

SB

[da_ashman]

LOVE what your doing!! & Im Uber Jealous your off to LeMans!!!
If you did want to do the BBS style wheel you could always get it 3D printed & cast in Resin or Metal etc if your after strength. Does look pretty cool without the centre caps on & wheels exposed!!

[JeremyJon]

Fantastic work, wonderful!

[ScratchBuilt]

Back from France...and only 51 weeks until the next time! For me, it felt like a slightly 'strange' Le Mans this year - in several ways. The weather throughout made you think it was September or October, rather than June - I've never had to wear four layers of clothing...although the cooler weather did make it easier to sleep in the tent at night. The changing conditions certainly played a part during the race too. Our campsite (Houx Annexe) didn't seem quite as busy as in previous years - again, not necessarily a bad thing.

The race itself was close-fought throughout, whether it was Toyota chasing Audi, or Porsche against Aston Martin and Ferrari. All four class battles were running to the end - no-one could really afford to back-off and cruise to the finish.

Unfortunately, Danish racer Allan Simonsen would succumb to injury after crashing heavily at Tertre Rouge, early in the race. It was a painful reminder that the sport I love can have the most serious consequences when things go wrong.

Meanwhile...

The pitlane walkabout on Friday was given a twist this year - to celebrate the 90th running of the 24h a display of 'Cars of the Decades' was assembled on the track running up to the Dunlop chicane. So, we had to go and have a look...



D-type Jaguar



Ford GT40



Porsche 917



Porsche 962



Mazda 787B



Audi R10 TDI



Audi R18 E-Tron Quattro

Looking back down the hill from the Dunlop chicane:



Despite feeling that our campsite, at least, wasn't as busy as in previous years, the crowds at the circuit on Friday and through the weekend were as large as ever. I'll be interested to see the official figures - the pitlane was very busy when we were there before noon, and there seemed to be almost as many people again enjoying the cars parked out on the track. Good to see you again, Cinqster!

During the pitwalk the number 41 'Caterham' was pushed out of the garage for some pit-stop practice. Okay - it's technically a Zytek-Nissan, but as I'm a Seven driver, I'm biased...



We managed to get hold of a couple of paddock passes from a friend on Saturday evening (Thanks again, Jean-Luc!), so were able to wander through the back of the pitlane during the race:



I had to get proof that I was there:



Finally, remember that 1/8 'Jaegermeister' Kremer 935 I posted last year? I found more:



Notice the yellow version in the background, too. Or you could buy an equally impressive 1/8 version of the Audi R18, or the early 70's Matra...lovely stuff! The price on the 935's was 2880 Euros, if you're interested! As usual, plenty of stalls and stands selling books, models, clothing, etc...so a few more small racing Porsches were added to my collection.

So, I'm now catching up with what's been happening in the outside world for the last few days, and looking forward to getting back into action with the 935-78.

Thanks for posting that shot, Ashman - I only found those myself in the last few weeks! Hmm, that 956 was using the same style of BBS rims too...

All the best,

SB

[ianc911]

Great shots SB, thanks for posting! You remain our 'man on the inside'...

ianc

[John18d]

Fantastic pics SB - you are the man
John