Hard time starting

[copcap96]

I didn't know there was a type of cleaner that you attached to the fuel rail. Where can you buy this kind? That may be an option.

I watched some videos about how to change them, it doesn't look too bad. If the cleaner in the tank doesn't help at all, I will probably do what you did. After you get them from the junkyard, what did you use to clean them up?

[rkvons]

Originally Posted by copcap96

I didn't know there was a type of cleaner that you attached to the fuel rail. Where can you buy this kind? That may be an option.

I watched some videos about how to change them, it doesn't look too bad. If the cleaner in the tank doesn't help at all, I will probably do what you did. After you get them from the junkyard, what did you use to clean them up?

I took a piece of rubber hose (about 1.5 feet long) that fit on the input side of the injector, clamped it on and poured acetone into the hose. Then I clamped an air chuck on the other end of the hose. I set my air compressor to 30 PSI and connected it to the air chuck. Then I used my car charger with a couple of clip leads and tapped them together to open and close the injector until the acetone was gone. Did each one that way. Cleaned them right up. For the cleaner you hook up to the rail, go to amazon.com and search for "OTC 7448 Fuel Injection Cleaner". You can watch it in action here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKGI9N_yWd0

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by rkvons

I took a piece of rubber hose (about 1.5 feet long) that fit on the input side of the injector, clamped it on and poured acetone into the hose. Then I clamped an air chuck on the other end of the hose. I set my air compressor to 30 PSI and connected it to the air chuck. Then I used my car charger with a couple of clip leads and tapped them together to open and close the injector until the acetone was gone. Did each one that way. Cleaned them right up. For the cleaner you hook up to the rail, go to amazon.com and search for "OTC 7448 Fuel Injection Cleaner". You can watch it in action here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKGI9N_yWd0

The 7448 is pretty useless unless you've got the OTC fuel injection pressure testing set. The 7448 doesn't connect to the fuel rail--it connects to the fuel pressure testing kit.

[rkvons]

Well I don't know that it is useless. I was thinking that, since fuel rails from different manufacturers have different fittings, you would have to get an adapter of some sort that fits your vehicle. My idea was to give the thread starter an idea of the concept of attaching something to the fuel rail and not the actual solution. I don't have one of these injector cleaners, but if I did, I would get an adapter to fit my vehicle(s).

[copcap96]

Hello again everyone. I chickened out with the Seafoam cleaner that I bought after reading that if there is any type of build up in you tank it may loosen it and cause you a whole new set of issues. We made it through the winter, but yesterday I got the call from my girlfriend that the car started running rough and then stalled. It cranked over nice and fast and obviously temperature wasn't an issue since it was running all day (and in a heated underground parking lot). It came close, but just would come to life.

I opened the throttle body wide open a few times and didn't smell any gas, so that lead me to get in and turn the key listening for the fuel pump, which I didn't hear. We left it there over night to cool down and went back today expecting to have to tow it, but surprisingly it started. Home was only a few minutes away, so off I went, and it is now home.

So I guess my question is, has anyone seen a fuel pump slowly deteriorate over time? I have only had them fail and stay broken. I have read that if there is a leak of some type on the pump or lines inside the tank, it will not leak gas, but result in low fuel pressure which would explain my issues. I planed on changing the fuel filter while I was changing the pump, but now I am wondering if the pump may be alright. I would hate to go through all the trouble of changing the pump if that isn't the issue. It would be nice if a fuel filter was the problem, but I doubt I would be that lucky.

What do you guys think, any one had a similar issue before? I am actually thinking now I should throw the Seafoam in there and see what happens. If I am already going to have to pull the tank off, I really have nothing to loose right?

[Schurkey]

Put a fuel pressure tester on the vehicle and learn something worthwhile. At least that would tell you if the pressure was OK or not. If not, the pump could be bad, or the electrical supply to the pump could be defective.

[copcap96]

Yeah, that is probably the best way to go I guess. I will have to buy one, but I assume NAPA or Canadian Tire or something should have them. I guess I should change the filter first in case it is plugged up and give a low reading. Thanks.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by copcap96

Yeah, that is probably the best way to go I guess. I will have to buy one, but I assume NAPA or Canadian Tire or something should have them. I guess I should change the filter first in case it is plugged up and give a low reading. Thanks.

Here in the States, auto parts stores rent or loan fuel pressure testers and other automotive tools. We might have to buy the tool, and then get a refund when the tool is returned.

[rkvons]

Originally Posted by copcap96

Yeah, that is probably the best way to go I guess. I will have to buy one, but I assume NAPA or Canadian Tire or something should have them. I guess I should change the filter first in case it is plugged up and give a low reading. Thanks.

It would be better to test the fuel pressure before you change the filter. If it is low, change the filter and see if it improves. If you change it first, you never will know if it was a problem.

[copcap96]

I watched a great youtube video on how to check the fuel pressure. The procedure basically showed to turn the key on, and the pressure should be somewhere between 40-50PSI. Then wait about 2 minutes. The pressure should be maintained, if it drops quick, probably fuel pump, if it drops slow, probably injectors or regulator. If all that goes well, start the car. It should then maintain a steady pressure slightly less than before starting. Does that procedure sound about right?

I have tested the fuel pressure based on the above instructions, before changing the filter as suggested. After turning the car on, it only went to about 11PSI. It did maintain that, but probably because it was so low to begin with. I then started the car. It bounced back and fourth between about 17-20PSI for a minute, then went to about 20-21PSI (not steady, still kind of bouncing around).

Based on the above, as much as I don't want it to be, I believe it is the fuel pump. I will change the filter first in case that somehow is that plugged that it is causing the super low pressure, but I think that is just wishful thinking on my part. I would change the regulator first too, but a new one is around $100. I guess I could take a trip across the city to the wrecker and get a cheap one if you guys think that could be the issue.

Any chance that a bad regulator could result in the above situation? I basically just wonder if anyone has a different opinion about this before I pull the tank off and buy a new pump. Thanks everyone for all the helpful hints on my problem.

[Schurkey]

What everyone calls a "fuel pump" is in fact an electric motor and fuel pump assembly.

If the electric motor isn't getting proper amperage and voltage, the pump will not work properly.

There is no way I'd drop the tank without testing the voltage in the wire harness AS CLOSE TO THE PUMP AS PRACTICAL. Current can be tested anywhere in the circuit, voltage has to be tested close to the load.

Given a choice, I'd use an oscilloscope and an amperage probe along with the voltmeter. That way the pump RPM can be determined, and current draw of each motor armature bar can be assessed individually. If the motor is starving for electricity, you'll find out easily enough.

Keep in mind that the wire harness inside the fuel tank is often a corroded mess. Replacement harnesses are about twenty bucks.