Suspension for P11 (Excluding Tein and JIC)

[kenchan]

actually helper springs arent there to really give a progressive rate ride, that would distort the overall feel of the sus especially if those were for sporting and racing. those springs are there just to keep the main coils from coming loose with the upper mount.

if you keep the strut height 2nd from the bottom setting as TEIN recommends for the NA's, it has enough throw to handle most driving conditions on the street. i havent had any problems going through some fast turns where it felt like it was full bumping and causing understeer. youd probably have to take it out to the track and really work your way around it to feel that..

[b-b00gie]

Originally posted by kenchan
actually helper springs arent there to really give a progressive rate ride... those springs are there just to keep the main coils from coming loose with the upper mount.

The fact that they ARE progressive IS ONE of the features of these types of systems, however, keeping the main coils from coming loose is NOT.

Have you ever read any info from Tanabe, H&R or other companies which use these systems?


I think Ken has been hittin the wacky tabacky :bandit:

[Sleepy]

hey boogie that url for veloctiy resources you put up doesnt work did it change or do you have a phone # for them
Thanks
Sleepy

[Dprotech]

Just wanted to keep you guys updated.

The B&G Suspension are going in this week. I'll post pictures and over the weekend Jason and I will compare the cars ride. Although this might be another week ..just to let the springs settle a bit.

I can't wait to see how it compares. Anyone still want my Eibach Springs ....?

[b-b00gie]

works for me... http://www.velocityresources.com/


Velocity Resources
Phone: # 407•464•4680

[kenchan]

bboogie- yah, watever. why don't you get a real coilover kit yourself and see how much compression is left on the helper spring with the car load on it? if you wanna call that "progressive" yah, watever...blahahaha!!! yah, maybe a tiny tiny little bit. the helper spring is called a helper spring for a reason. it helps keep the main coils from coming apart (rids the play of the main coil) from the upper mounts while going over sudden bumps and dips so it's not just for progressive rate. you ever see a car with just lowering springs and raised on jacks? you'll see that the springs are sitting on the lower mounts and not even touching the upper mount. that's where the helper spring comes in.

sometimes it helps to talk from actual experience rather than just reading the notes, bud. how the hell are you gonna measure ALL situations, huh? forget all the marketing tactics they use to confuse people like you. at least I speak from actual experience.

oh yah, you ever read the TEIN page? oh yah, you can't read japanese.... missing out on a lot of the "truth" from their end, huh?

[Sleepy]

hey kenchan try http://www.tein.co.jp/indexe.html its teins page in english maybe thats were boogie looked :frog:
thanks for reputing up the link that one works for me for so reason the other didnt
sleepy

[kenchan]

sleepy- thanx bud.

"Helper springs are available to stop spring rattle. " by TEIN...


and all the other guys that really have coilovers who know what the helper springs are there for. think of it in simple terms...why the hell would you want progressive rate on sport/racing shocks?! beats da hell out of me. for the street, sure.

[b-b00gie]

Ken, you need to cool it.


For one, "helper springs" were not designed to keep the "other" springs from coming off the perch when the car is on jack stands.

I must say, I am now laughing AT you.


Second, I have plenty of experience with these systems concidering a good friend of mine has been running an motorsport shop for years. Not to mention that even before I had a drivers license (since I was 14, and I'm soon to turn 24) I was tinkering with my friend's cars.


Third, you claim I'm getting my information from marketing mumbo jumbo? ...yet you just admitted you are getting your info from the Tein website.


Lastly, you're telling me to go get a high performance suspension system??? Are you the pot calling the kettle black? I have the same setup as you and let me tell you I regret every second of it. The GC/Koni was a much better setup.

[kenchan]

bboogie- relax young man, i ain't trying to mess with ya. you just need to talk in more of a casual tone rather than a lawyer type. you think you're so smart with your sophmore type attitude. you have a lot to learn, son.

like I said I talk from actual experience and I put the note from TEIN just to show you another side of this mumbo jumbo picture. it didn't say anything about 'progressive rate' like you mentioned. dats all.

you're starting to trip over what you started. dont do that it looks bad. all in all, I dont loose sleep over wat you write. you just take in other people's info as it comes and see if that really applies in person. thats where ignorance and experience separates.

[Sleepy]

man cant we all just get along

[P10DET]

Originally posted by b-b00gie
For one, "helper springs" were not designed to keep the "other" springs from coming off the perch when the car is on jack stands.

Actually that is what helper springs are for. Well, it has nothing to do with jackstands, but rather helper springs keep the main springs fully seated at full droop. If you don't run helper springs, you run the risk of the main springs unseating and not seating properly when the suspension compresses again. I don't have them yet, but they are on my list of things to get.

Helper springs have a spring rate of something like 10. They are flat springs, designed to lay flat as soon as the car is sitting on the ground normally.

I just started looking at this thread, but what I think you are thinking of is tender springs. Tender springs have rate below the main springs, but usually quite higher than helper springs.

Tender springs complicate the spring rate question and don't create progressive springs like we normally think of them.

[/b][/quote]

[P10DET]

Originally posted by kenchan
like I said I talk from actual experience and I put the note from TEIN just to show you another side of this mumbo jumbo picture. it didn't say anything about 'progressive rate' like you mentioned. dats all.

Dude, you should be careful what you say as well. You may have some experience, but ....

Tender springs are in common usage in European racing. You will find most of the top touring car teams run tender spings. They aren't progressive in the same way as a progressive single spring. I don't profess to know the ins and outs of running tender springs, but I do know they are being run on a lot of race cars. Dave Coleman wrote about it in his column in SCC a few months back. I should probably do some more research to understand it better. But I do know it's not quite as simple as it sounds.