loose change

[beef_bourito]

Hey a friend of mine just showed me this video, it's about 9/11 and it's got some really good info. i did a search and i couldn't find anyone who posted it so here it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...change&pl=true

i think it might be a little old but for those of you who haven't seen it, it's really well done and it really makes you wuestion the american government.

[Broke_as_****]

Whatever you think of all this, I'm just thankful someone with more than half a brain is presenting the opposite side of the adminstrations, rather than that freak show ass clown Michael Moore.

[Rally Sport]

Wow.. thats pretty bad. Very interesting video and really makes you believe..

[twospirits]

Someone did post this up earlier and it was just too long to view in google, so i actually went and bought it. After seeing it I must say that it left alot of question, especially with the Pentagon hit.

TS out

[vinnym86]

Originally Posted by twospirits

Someone did post this up earlier and it was just too long to view in google, so i actually went and bought it. After seeing it I must say that it left alot of question, especially with the Pentagon hit.

TS out

holy shit! where'd u come from!?

[twospirits]

I've been here, just in quiet lurking mode.

TS

[vinnym86]

^lol


that's a provocotive video. its unfortunate, too... well, anyone who didn't already distrust their government, they will after watching this.

[directory]

you can actually find some of the documents he is referring to--online. scary stuff.

[vinnym86]

i don't know if everyone here saw the movie V for Vendetta but if not, after seeing loose change, GO SEE IT! Honestly, i saw the movie, had great political debates and all, then saw loose change, new views, new thoughts, new debates, then i just went to see V for Vendetta again today, and goddamn... a lot i can compare with loose change. really really really go see it, i can't stress it enough, lol. yeah, i'm a bit overzealous, but if you like these political provocations, whatever your views are, go watch the movie for a view of another perspective.

[beef_bourito]

just saw V for Vendetta, awsome movie. after watching loose change, i just kept thinking "9/11 anyone" lol.

[KustmAce]

I hope that everyone watches this in its entirety before dismissing it as yet another "stupid conspiracy theory". It really raises some very strong arguments.

[Broke_as_****]

Yes it does but like anything, it's not entirely sound.

In the bit with the lamp posts, he's comparing a small private jet with a commerical airliner. This is offset by the strong argument he makes with lack of damage at the actual crash site but I thought it would bring it up as "character base" of sorts.

When talking about the bomber that crashed into the Empire state building, he's again comparing a relatively small plane to a massive airliner. That and the Empire State building is a very old school building that contains huge quantities of giant cast iron beams throughout the entire structure. The World Trade Towers were modern, light weight structures that used deliberate engineering in place of sheer mass to support it's weight and brace against the wind. Same with the building fires given as examples, all were either much smaller structures than the World Trade Towers, different design or different types of fires (regarding size, duration and spread). He's comparing apples and oranges. Yes that needs further explanation so here its (Get a sandwich).

The World Trade Towers were not as indestructable as the video makes them out to be. Yes that uber steel he was talking about was used...but only for the core support beams. The outer beams (the up and down lines on the outside) were relatively light duty pieces meant mostly to add rigidity to the building, not to carry the majority of it's weight. The weight of the floors was supported by trusses that transfered the load to the outer supports and the massive inner supports. The mounts that held the trusses to the supports are widely believed to be the part that failed. So even if the the core supports were doing just fine the entire floor could still collapse if you had enough of the trusses fail. And from there it's simply a snow ball effect of impact and momentum. One floor fails and over loads the one below it and so on.

This will be discussed in a link down the page but essentially the towers were too big to fall anywhere but straight down. And straight down is a bit of a stretch, as you can see here, there is debris all over the entire area. Anyway, the idea being it would have taken a few of the bottom floors each having half of it destroyed (think swinging an axe at a tree) to bring it down anyway but on it's self. As for the burst of debris seen in the video just before the main section collapsing passed that spot (the plumes coming out of the building from the explosions he alledges), one might think that the interior of the building, with the floors falling upon themselves would being "falling faster" than the rigid exterior crumbled. Perhaps that is addressed in the massive report you'll find below, I haven't read the whole thing yet.

As for the argument about the heat of the fire, it's kind of side lined after you look into the construction of the building. This is because the argument in the video focused on how the heat generated was not enough to weaken the core supports, made from ultra high quality steel, when really the threat from the fire was to the trusses and their mounts due to being much smaller and thiner. With enough trusses weakened and distorted, the weight of everything on the floor and presumably the wreckage of the plane would have brought one floor down and then it simply took gravity to do the rest.

Here is a design schematic for the trusses:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/659...sdesign6og.jpg

And a picture of a floor during construction:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1...ruction4fu.jpg

Looking at the building like that, it's not so hard to imagine a bunch of those thin little trusses taking a dump.

As taken from:

http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtcreport.htm

Section 2-8 (Part 2 Page 8)

If you want a really in depth examination then read the above, it's study conducted by FEMA and the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), concluding some 10,000 man hours of research. It's long but very well done. This seems to be in direct contention with what he says on the video (which I believe was "There has never been an offical study done on the WTC" or something to that effect).

Here's a good bit that explains all that in more detail without the going into the actual report:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse.html

http://www.architectureweek.com/2002/0515/news_1-1.html

There were a few other things that bothered me about the movie, I forget what they were now but I'll watch it again and post if they warrant it.

Anyway, all this aside, he does raise quite a few questions that need to be answer. Like WTF is with Flight 93? Why is there such a cap on whatever happened at the Pentagon? Why is there so much cocksmokery around the whole thing? I liked this video but as with anything it's never totally air tight. Somewhere between what the two sides are saying lies the truth and I would have to guess it's closer to the "Loose Change" story then the administrations.

And I'll say again, I'm very happy to see someone with a brain going after the subject. Michael Moore is an idiot.

[vinnym86]

my friend was talking about this video a lil bit b4 this thread came up, and i dismissed it right away as a stupid conspiracy. i mean, i had little trust in our government to begin with, but i'm no fan of conspiracies, i think sometimes ignorance is bliss, but its also weakness. after seeing this, i can say this was VERY well made. there were a lot of sound facts, but a lot of things that just didn't sink in. The Pentagon theory really stuck out at me, but the WTC seemed farfetched.

Originally Posted by Broke_as_****

I'm very happy to see someone with a brain going after the subject. Michael Moore is an idiot.

i did like Bowling for Columbine, however.

[Broke_as_****]

I also have to admit that I liked Candian Bacon, another Michael Moore film.

[v10_viper]

Here is another video on the Pentagon:
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main

bomber that crashed into the Empire state building

It wasn't a B-52 bomber, it was a B-25 bomber as stated on their website. If it was a B-52 however, it's much much heavier, and slightly bigger than a 757. The B-25 isn't that big however.

I'd like to see anyone prove this video wrong. If you don't believe the video then you're quite ignorant, and like he says in the video, why is the governemtn so scared? Let's see those video's of the pentagon.