BMW M5 vs Holden HSV GTS R 300

[NISSANSPDR]

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caran...est_dundee.xml

The BMW M5 looked like it had just fudged its pants

Which would you like...? (I know this article is a bit old) :finger4:

[Gonthrax]

I'd go with the M5, I never was a Holden lover so the choice was pretty easy for me.

[NISSANSPDR]

[Tom_S8]

The choice is quite obvious , M5 is the best sedan in the world , when it comes to performance sedans at least...

[Moppie]

M5.

Its dosnt matter how many badges and stickers and bits of fiberglass you put on the holden, its still a Taxi.

[Chris]

I had made a similiar thread somewhere else, but I go for the HSV, it is much much cheaper.

Oh, I have heard that we will be getting it over here next year
Its about bloody time someone at GM realized that the best cars they made a kept in Austrailia (Thank you, Lutz!!!!)

[Thunda Downunda]

I've seen plenty of Mercedes taxis overseas but that doesn't diminish my respect for the brand .. rather it indicates to me a basic goodness in that they can be durable enough to make money out of

The hideous stickers 'n stripe features are not to my taste either (this appeared on Commodores only after UK-based TWR sadly muscled out the original Holden Dealer Team) but there's plenty of 'denuded' GTS's here.
One thing I noticed about the C&D test (ty for the link) was the supposedly soft Harrop HSV brakes in comparision to the M5. Local tests claim these to be sensational, approaching 911 retardation levels. Perhaps this shows the perils of pronouncing judgement on the strength of a single, hard-used test car, as another M5/GTS magazine comparo, using supposedly independent Swedish racer Anders Ollafson on the Nuringburgring long circuit, claimed a clear victory over the Bimmer, including regarding brake fade, noting also that after 20 minutes the M5's tyres had gone off as well - apparently the Holden uses its footwear better. One thing's for sure - the GTS is the best-braked car in local 'GTP Stock' racing (including Mitsu Evo's, BMW, Cobra R Mustang etc)

Value for money is a subjective equasion, I suppose - the GTS costs less that half what an M5 does here and as such is a little out of its element overseas, yet not so much as that price would suggest. But to my mind the best $/performance value in Oz is the base 6speed Gen 3 Commodore, about 35% of the GTS, with 80% of the go - BMW make nothing like it. The lighter V8 ute is a tad faster, even cheaper btw

In the local scene, Holden have a long heritage of budget-performance sedans, starting from the original 1948 'humpy' FX (faster than a Ford V8) and the cult 1963 S4 (up with Jag MkII). Both the potent SLR V8 Toranas of the 70's and the 80's HDT 'Brock' Commodores trounced their resective BMW opposition (3.0si etc, M3, M5) on the street and on great tracks like Bathurst. Forgive my long-winded post but whether or not you think this BMW/Holden performance-sedan battle is won, the war's not over yet!

[auswrx]

Actually, the ute is slower, not faster then the sedan.

[Fliquer]

The Verdict: Its better, but only just

I agree. (they are talking about the M5).

However, I'll take one of these please

[Tom_S8]

There are 2 new sedans that own these...
Mercedes (I hate them tho , but it's an amazing machine) E55 AMG with supercharged motor (yes , the same as in the new SL55) with 465 hp

Audi RS6 with 6 speed , quattro 4WD drivetrain and a 4.2 liter Biturbo V8 putting out 450 hp...

[Thunda Downunda]

Originally posted by Tom_S8
There are 2 new sedans that own these...
Mercedes (I hate them tho , but it's an amazing machine) E55 AMG with supercharged motor (yes , the same as in the new SL55) with 465 hp

Audi RS6 with 6 speed , quattro 4WD drivetrain and a 4.2 liter Biturbo V8 putting out 450 hp...

Not trying to flame .. but ..

'Ownership' becomes an altogether different concept for a real life buyer who actually has to pony up the $$ to own one of these things, rather than dreams of glory via fantasy internet postings.

I've seen new GTS HSV sedans advertised for the equivalent of about US$45k.
How does this compare to the 3 German wonderwagens I wonder?


Holden dyno testing a GTS Coupe on the longest stretch of speed-unlimited road in the world: the Northern Territory's 1491km Stuart Highway. (note factory-option towbar)

[Chris]

WEll, we are getting the Monaro here next year as the GTO, and its about bloody time
Also, I have heard rumors that we will be getting 2 other Holdens, like the Commodore, for sure. Which would be a breath of fresh air!

[Tom_S8]

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda


How does this compare to the 3 German wonderwagens I wonder?

Actually it doesn't , that's why i find this thread is quite pointless....
1st off you can't have a holden outside australia (you can , but there are only RHD versions avaliable , and it's not officially sold out of australia & Oceania)
2nd all 3 of the german cars are better everywhere (power , acceleration , top speed , quality , comofort , handling , grip , prestige , .... - you name it) expect price... it's actually not very suprising that a slower and worse built car is cheaper...

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda


Not trying to flame .. but ..

'Ownership' becomes an altogether different concept for a real life buyer who actually has to pony up the $$ to own one of these things, rather than dreams of glory via fantasy internet postings.

Me... i hate bragging about money but i could buy all 4 of the cars (holden , bmw , audi and merc) if i really needed to... And about owning , i meant that audi RS6 and the new E55 AMG own both of those performance wise... just wait until they realese the new M5 tho...

[Thunda Downunda]

quote by Tom_S8:

1st off you can't have a Holden outside Australia (you can, but there are only RHD versions available, and it's not officially sold outside of Australia and oceania)

Tom, understandably you aren't aware that Holden also exports CBU to Brazil, Argentina, the Middle East (all factory LHD, btw) & the UK etc. Apart from the impending north american sales drive, heads of both Opel & Vauxhall have publicly stated interest, with cars on test & business plans afoot

2nd all 3 of the German cars are better everywhere (power, top speed, quality, comofort, handling, grip, prestige, ....- you name it) expect price ... it's actually not very surprising that a slower and worse built car is cheaper...

Notwithstanding the C-D test, another comparison I read, held in conjunction with a UK magazine, compared GTS with M5 V8 on the Nurburgring 'long circuit' using ex-F1 racer Anders Olaffson, and guess what? I merely accurately relate (as both you and I can only rely on the written word) that Holden was pronounced superior in this test regarding acceleration, top speed (no limiter), handling consistency, steering, brakes, seats, room, value for money etc. against Germany's 'ultimate driving machine'. Therefore, going by this aforementioned Sport Sedan test, it is surprising that a vastly less expensive car proved superior in dynamic ability, performance, comfort, and again value. But then again, as mentioned in my previous post, Holden V8's (even the humble Ute) have over many years generally proved to be quicker than overweight overpriced ego-laden BMW M sedans.

Hearty congratulations Tom for being able to afford all 4 cars!
.. can you buy me one while you're at it?
and I accept if I deliberately took your mention of 'ownership' somewhat out of context, to highlight a valid point. Of interest btw is that TWR UK (which part-owns HSV) recently released a batch of supercharged GTS-R's with (from memory) 530 BHP

ps: you're right, posting on the internet is pointless .. but it's fun

[Chris]

Actually, some cars in Europe are based on the same platform as some Holdens, so they are kinda in Europe. They are very popular in the middle east as well.
PS, Thunda, do you recall what magazine this was and where I could read the article? I would be interested in it.