Brake issues

[GodsGirl73]

Hello, I really need some help/guidance. I am at my wits end. I know I’m missing something but can’t figure it out and can’t afford to take it to someone right now.

Problem: My brakes are very soft when van is running. With a little bit of pumping the van stops but not as immediate as I would like it to and the pedal isn’t as hard as it should be..

Current situation:
1999 Town and Country LX 2whl drive 3.8 w/trac
-With the van in off position, the pedal travels 2 inches before it is hard. Multiple pumps do not change the hardness or travel of the pedal.
-When I hold down the pedal and turn the van on, the pedal sinks to 1inch off the floor.
- With the engine on, I pumped it 30 times and the pedal does not get hard – it continues to travel 1 inch from the floor.
- When I drive the van I have to press down hard for the brakes to stop the van. If I pump it a little (depress pedal two-three inches only) a couple of times, the van seems to stop faster – or in less of a distance.
- While sitting at a stop light, vehicle in gear, with my pedal almost to the floor, I can pump the brake a couple of times to get the pedal to rise to about 3 inches from the floor. The pedal does not sink any further while stopped, running, and in gear.

History of Repair:
Back in January the vans rear wheels were squealing – ex-husband said rear shoes needed replaced. They didn’t need replaced but they were replaced anyway and the drums were cleaned of debris. Van stopped squealing. Braking was normal. Pedal a little squishy but safe. Pedal would travel about 3 inches before grabbing.

March - April: Front pads were metal on metal so I replaced both the pads and the rotors on both front wheels. After the test drive, I didn’t like the stopping distance required to stop the van so thought this might be due to the passenger rear wheel cylinder. I replaced it. Then manually bleed all the lines. During the test drive the rear wheel was rubbing and the pedals sponginess worse than ever. I decided to bleed the brakes again. I bled the brakes then did a test drive, then I bled the brakes again and then another test drive. I did this 5 times total (I followed owners manual sequence). It did not fix the squishy pedal. So I decided work on the slight rubbing issue. I took the drum off and reseated the shoes. This did not help. Due to my ignorance, I failed to readjust the star lever. Ex-husband came over and fixed the adjustment bar for me in the process he broke the bleeder screw – no idea how that happened. I could not find any leaking oil coming from any of the lines, MC or the bleeder screws so I let the van sit for 2 weeks on cardboard to see if I had drips. No drips so I placed paper towels around the front calipers, MC and bleeder screws on the rear for one week. Nothing. I figured I broke the master cylinder during the multiple bleeding attempts. I installed a new (not rebuilt) one. I bench bled it and then bled the lines going into it. Then I replaced the passenger wheel cylinder again. This time, I used a vacuum pump one person bleeding tool to bleed all the line in sequence according to the owners manual. I consumed 2-32oz bottles of dot 3 fluid – just to make sure. Then I did my test drive last night. The van stops but not very fast and the pedal still does not have enough pressure behind it – thus my pumping before stops. I checked for leaks (paper towels overnight) and this morning found no leaks. Fluid level in the MC reservoir has not changed.

Any help or ideas would be much appreciated!
Thanks in Advance,
Tina

[plymouthsrock]

I would:

Activate the emergency brake (while parked)- pedal a lot better? If so, re-check everything you did in the back.

Re-check for leaks, many posts about the rear height sensing valve leaking.

Bleed it again- I don't care for the vacuum system, you can't see how much the MC is pushing to each wheel.

[GodsGirl73]

Thanks for your response! My responses are in blue below.

Originally Posted by plymouthsrock

I would:

Activate the emergency brake (while parked)- pedal a lot better? I did this - there was no change. If so, re-check everything you did in the back I rechecked everything again - all looks good. No leak inside drums or at the brake line or at the bleeder screw.

Re-check for leaks, many posts about the rear height sensing valve leaking. I've traced all the brake lines again. They are all metal except for a few inches in the back and the front. The fittings into the ABS have some rust colored corosion but no leaks anywhere and no signs of previous leaks.

Bleed it again- I don't care for the vacuum system, you can't see how much the MC is pushing to each wheel. How do you recommend me bleeding them? I tried the assistant "up/down" helper method and I think that is how I broke my master cylinder. The brakes were worse after we did it that way.

Update: I changed the other wheel cylinder and bled the lines again. The brakes are better but not where they were a few months ago. Any more suggestions?? Is there a possibility that the front calipers are bad? Thanks in advance!

[plymouthsrock]

Front calipers either get stuck or leak, and rarely both sides at the same time- you would know if either of these were happening. If one side was sticking, the brakes would pull to the opposite side.


The two person bleeding method is still pretty reliable, and develops more pressure than the vacuum method. The sequence from the shop manual is

L/R, R/F, R/R, L/F.

[theFREAKnasty82]

have someone who knows what they are doing check the rear adjuster and make sure they are working properly. Dodge brakes are notorious for wearing front brakes quickly because they use phenolic (plastic) caliper pistons which have a habit of binding inside the bores. Just as a good practice, always set the emergency brake; that helps to keep the back brakes in adjustment. Worse case scenario, the master cylinder could be bypassing the rear brakes thus putting all the stress on the front, but I doubt that because these vans are notorious for bad wheel cylinders.