Gordon Murray at ArtCenter recap...

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by MalkaJB

Oh you do, do you? And when will that be...next time Gordon happens to be in the neighborhood? Perhaps sometime in the near future, you will run into him again at the local Applebees.

Maybe while you do that, I'll give the Sultan a ring and find out what he has to say about the matter at hand.

All joking aside, what sort of contact info did Mr. Murray give you?

Gordon gave me his business card with his address and fax number. Once he gets established with an email address he said he would pass that along to me as well. I gave him my card too, along with instructions on how to find this website. He seemed keenly interested in the content I had collected and seemed interested in the McLarenFreak.com website that tvrfreak and I told him F1 monster is developing to celebrate the car.

I should back track a little and explain that Gordon didn't strike me as the most computer/web-savvy guy around. He had heard about some of the things circulating the net on the F1 via his son, but I don't think he has been here for a first hand look yet.

My initial conversation with him was about 15 minutes long and happened right as I walked into the Sculpture Garden where the car show was being held. I found him standing by himself looking at a concept car that was on display and thought I would seize the opportunity to introduce myself when he wasn't busy talking to other people.

I was hoping that he might have at least heard about what we have going here, or even be familiar with my screenname. In fact there have been times in the past where I thought he was one of our participants, but apparently that isn't the case. I went ahead and explained the back story to give him an idea of my level of interest.

We talked a bit about his F1, and apparently that old Jag did actually back into the nose of XP3 and did damage to the paint during the Dunhill event, so it wasn't just exhaust spray we saw in the photos. He said that David Clark's GTR #06R had been damaged in the nose when he allowed someone else to take the wheel but he wasn't certain what they hit.

I seized the opportunity to ask him if he knew what had happened to XP2, since it's the only F1 prototype that the existence of remained in question. He was certain that it had been crushed sometime after the MIRA crash test which makes XP3 now the earliest remaining F1 in existence. He was curious where XP4 had ended up since I stated that the others were accounted for so I mentioned the New Zealander 'Bhatnagar' which was a name that seemed familiar to Gordon, and then told him that the car had come to the USA in Aug 2000 and that it's new owner was Larry Blair. He hadn't heard that yet.

I talked a little about the Light Car Company Rocket which is another car that I love. We talked about Jay driving his own Rocket around L.A. which Gordon thought was a bit insane. I asked if he knew whether Jay was bringing his McLaren to the show as I didn't see it anywhere on the lawn and he told me that he believed he was. I asked him if he would mind autographing a LCC Rocket brochure that was still down in my car and he said he hadn't seen one of those in several years and would be glad to. I mentioned that I had brought my laptop (also still in the car) and asked if he'd be interested in taking a look at some of my digital collection later, and he said he wouldn't mind. I'm not really sure he knew what he was volunteering for with that one though.

At that point I excused myself, not wanting to be too much of a pest and drive the man nuts in the first hour. Then I had to call my mom to tell her what had just happened.

I have to admit, going into this I wasn't really sure what kind of response to expect from Gordon. I've heard some say he was very eccentric, still others have claimed that he was cold and arrogant, and in a case like Thorst mentions, not very personable. I found all those things to be false in my encounter - he was very open, thoughtful and eloquent (as one would expect) but he was also humble and didn't come off as superior in anyway. He made a real effort to set aside the time at the end of the day with tvrfreak and I which he certainly didn't have to do. This may sound quite cliche, but it was truly an honor to be in his presence and listen to him speak.

After his speech I had to take a shuttle down to my car to get my laptop case and tvrfreak waited inside the show - thankfully keeping track of Gordon when I was gone. When I got back Jay had left in the McLaren, but Gordon was still there and was headed for the hosptality tent to get some refreshments. Once he saw us in there he came over and suggested a table closer to the fan (it was very hot) and then once I had my laptop set up he came and sat with us. I began flipping through different folders showing him things and asking a few questions here and there. I'm not bragging here, but there were more than a few times when Gordon stated that we clearly knew more about the cars than he did now and that he couldn't really help us with the answers. I don't find that too surprising really, given that he has been totally immersed in the development of the SLR since ~1999. Now that he has left McLaren he has even less exposure to the cars.

Now, if you asked him a question about the development process of the F1, or why they went one direction over another I am quite certain that there is no one on the planet who could give a more accurate answer, but if you ask him who owns (for example) chassis #011 now, he really can't be much help since he hasn't worked on that side of the business in quite some time. I showed him my folder of photos of #040 - the blue car with the high mirrors and black wheels - and I would have thought that a unique looking F1 like that one would have been familiar to him, but he had never seen it. I showed him the folder with the silver F1 that wears the high downforce package and a very unique set of headlights and he wasn't sure which car it was or why the design change had been made.

Like the rest of you I was really hoping and expecting that Gordon would be the holy grail of McLaren info - a walking encyclopedia that could put me to shame in every respect, but it just wasn't the case. I don't really think he has any need to apologize for that either, as he has not spent the last ~3 years devoted to doing what I do. I'm sure if he wanted the answers he could easily attain them, but it just has not been a priority for him like it has for me and many of the others here. He said that most of the original owners would be familiar to him as he had a hand in the sale of almost every car, but that he wasn't aware of too many of the new owners. He did recall Dan Kennedy's #038 with all its tech-gizmos. Interestingly, he wasn't aware of #011 and #073 having been sold by the Ojjeh brothers through those two Christies Auctions - that kind of caught me by surprise given that Mansour was one of the four principals in getting the McLaren Cars company and the F1 project off the gound back in 1988.

We had talked earlier in the day about his own personal collection of F1 memorabilia. He said he has a decent set of the F1 diecasts that were produced and that he had tried to keep one of every piece of literature that was published on the F1. He told me that during his Formula One years he hadn't kept a thing - no team apparel, no race programs, nothing really - he said there was just no time to think about that stuff. With the F1 though, he wanted to be sure he would have things to look back on. I'm betting his physical library on the F1 is way cooler than mine.

I started showing him some of the items that have come up on Ebay in recent years like the F1 replica made of marble, the one in pewter, the wheel nut from XP3's record run at Nardo, and finally the F1 pedal set that sold for just over $1000. He said that particular person had gotten an amazing deal as he recalled the pedal set had cost quite a bit more to produce for the car than what was paid. He seemed rather surprised there was that sort of market developing behind F1 parts and memorabilia. I also showed him some photos of the full scale McLaren replicas that have come onto the scene recently, including the very awkward looking one that was listed on Ebay recently which gave him a good laugh. He seemed a bit perturbed after looking at the one from DDRmotorsport - being that it's nearly a carbon copy of the F1 in the styling department.

Intermixed in all of this, Jerry Weigert of Vector fame had come by to discuss Gordon's future company/project, which includes a supercar design followed by a very unique citycar that he feels will revolutionize the market. In my teenage years I had been a big fan of Vector and had even met Mr Weigert at the '91 or '92 LA Auto Show when they had 5 or 6 W8's on display - I think I was about 15 at the time. Sitting at a table with him and Gordon was one of those surreal moments where you have to pinch yourself because you think you might be dreaming. Once he had left we spent some time discussing Gordon's magazine contributions, I finally found out that they built a total of 55 LCC Rockets, and I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that tvrfreak and I made a new friend named Gordon Murray. It was a very special day for the both of us - the email that tvrfreak sent me that evening echoed a lot of the same thoughts about what a great day it had been - to borrow his words "we were truly in the shadow of greatness today".

>8^)
ER

[peter i]

Peloton25,
You really turn all of us to a real F1 freaks!

[F1 monster]

Another awesome writeup.

Wish I had been there too.

[jkbon]

I'm not bragging here, but there were more than a few times when Gordon stated that we clearly knew more about the cars than he did now and that he couldn't really help us with the answers.

I can easily understand that !
In fact you met the wrong person to have answers to your questions.
You have an interest : locate all the Mclaren and identify their owners.
His interest was to build the best supercar.
After that, what append to the car, or who is the owner of the car is not so important.

It was a great day for you, no doubt, but It seems it would have been still better if you met the McLaren’s head of customer care instead of GM.

[F1 monster]

McLaren has an official policy of not discussing customers. Meeting with the head of customer care would yield much.

Now that he is not with the company, GM is probably the most unfettered source of information. I really need to meet him!

I am sure our interests are more than just locating the cars and their owners. In my case, I want to know everything and anything about the cars, and anything else tangentially related to them. I am less interested in some items than others--eg. I don't know anything about the models or the world of McLaren memorabilia, but I am very interested on keeping my finger on the pulse of everything to do with real McLarens. That means parts, performance, engineering, factory, teams, events, etc., etc.

[Peloton25]

For anyone interested in the Montage slide - I made a larger version.

What you see here is the medium resolution file. It is clickable for a 1600x1350 version and the file size is over 500KB. It's still a little soft given that it was a photo taken of a projected slide, but far better than nothing I'd say.



>8^)
ER

[Peloton25]

Following that up - I have almost 60 photos of Leno's F1 now stored in this Imagestation album:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2123118392

I would have taken more, but there's only so many angles you can take of a stationary car that's all closed up before you get bored, even if it is a McLaren F1. You'll notice in a few that there is a distinct golden hue to the paint color. This was me playing with my circular polarizer from different angles - in some cases it really made the metallic flake in the paint "pop" as they say.

I was hoping that Jay might leave the car open a while and let his friend stand gaurd, but he had two request from kids to sit in the car in the first :30 seconds he was there, so I don't blame him for locking it down.

My photo session with the car was also cut short so I could get a good seat in the auditorium for Gordon's speech, and afterwards by the time I got back to the Sculpture Garden the F1 was already gone.

Right now each image is uploaded at 1024x768. If there is one that you want in a larger resolution, please let me know. I took 99% of them at 2048x1536 and don't mind sharing a few of the originals. I don't think pictures hosted on Imagestation will work here, so don't bother trying to embed any of them into the thread.

>8^)
ER

[drewwtms]

I am well and truly stunned at your encounter. That is just awesome in the very literal definition of the word. I don't think I would have been able to hold it together so bravo for keeping your head on your shoulders!

Did you know long beforehand that he was going to be there? I wish I had been paying more attention as I would have flown out there.

Why only 1 McLaren? I would have thought this would be an ideal opportunity to have a gathering.

Your 015 photos are excellent. Lots of good angles that I have never seen before. And some of the lighting is nice too.

The audio from the camera is pretty good. I was expecting worse. We just had to turn the volume way up. There were 5 of us listening to it in our office.

I can't say I'm shocked to hear that GM isn't involved in the F1 community anymore although it is a little disappointing. I guess an engineer in his profession is always thinking forward and hardly thinking about the past.

I'm just in awe right now. Bravo!

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by drewwtms

I am well and truly stunned at your encounter. That is just awesome in the very literal definition of the word. I don't think I would have been able to hold it together so bravo for keeping your head on your shoulders!

Did you know long beforehand that he was going to be there? I wish I had been paying more attention as I would have flown out there.

This was all the warning I had:
Gordon Murray of McLaren F1 fame to speak at Art Center

I'm sorry that you missed out - really. It would have been great if we could have had a few more of the true F1 enthusiasts there.

Why only 1 McLaren? I would have thought this would be an ideal opportunity to have a gathering.

I was hoping for more than one - I thought maybe they would have ensured that at least a Rocket and SLR were there and I was kind of surprised they weren't - especially since Jay could have easily provided the other two.

Your 015 photos are excellent. Lots of good angles that I have never seen before. And some of the lighting is nice too.

Thanks man - I'm glad to hear that. I did my best to get some wallpaper-worthy shots, some detail shots, and a few candid shots of people's reaction to the car. The plaque in front of the chassis plaque that talks about the F1s Ehra Lessien speed record was the most interesting detail I saw on the car. I know I have never seen one of those before.

The audio from the camera is pretty good. I was expecting worse. We just had to turn the volume way up. There were 5 of us listening to it in our office.

Good to hear that, but unfortunately the Murray clips don't even come close. As an entertainer, Jay is probably more adept at projecting his voice. Gordon is a bit taller than Jay and the microphone wasn't pointed up towards Gordon's mouth when he took the podium. He's also rather soft-spoken in comparison to Jay so there's really no value in the other clips that I have. I almost think it would be a disservice to share what I managed to get so I won't be sharing them. The first ~23 minute segment is completely missing too, and starting halfway through the speech would just be wrong.

I can't say I'm shocked to hear that GM isn't involved in the F1 community anymore although it is a little disappointing. I guess an engineer in his profession is always thinking forward and hardly thinking about the past.

I'm just in awe right now. Bravo!

I was initially surprised that Gordon hasn't kept pace with the cars a bit more, but then the more I thought about it I'm sure he really just doesn't have the time. I think that was why he was so interested in what I had to share - kind of a rushed "where are they now" experience for him.

He's definitely a forward thinker - no doubt about that. He's assembling the team now for his next two projects and a lot of them are former McLaren Cars employees so I expect nothing but greatness in the coming years. The hardest part will be securing the financing to get the project moving, but hopefully with Gordon's reputation and resume, even that won't end up being an issue. He'll be back in control again too, just the way he likes it.

>8^)
ER

[F1 monster]

Yup, he will probably keep it really tight, both budget-wise and with regards to headcount. I think he probably has to keep potential investors from throwing money at him. There are very few people with such credibility, and his contact list must be simply amazing.

[Thorst13]

Originally Posted by MalkaJB

Oh, and Peloton, has anyone ever told you that you look a little like Michael Schumacher from the side?

Really? I think he looks a little like Steven Seagal

[F1 monster]

As long as he does not look like Condoleeza Rice ...

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by Thorst13

Really? I think he looks a little like Steven Seagal

No ponytail here!!!


>8^)
ER

[F1 monster]

Isn't Steven Segal the reason we have "straight-to-video" movies?!

[-DeaDLocK-]

A stunning encounter, and a day to remember!

More than anything else, I am really happy for you guys - all the good karma and positive vibes that you have accumulated by amassing as much information on the cars as you possibly can along with an unwavering dedication, and perhaps most importantly, passion for the car and in sharing this with this little humble community has resulted in this meeting.

I am really pleased that you managed to not only meet the man behind the greatest car ever made, but you actually sat down with him and got chatting. The most obsessed fan in the world meeting the mind behind the obsession - Hollywood couldn't have made it up!

Bravo!!!

Now Erik hopefully you have the leverage you need to call up Gordon and pester him for a ride in an F1 - I'm sure he could make the necessary arrangements if you could get yourself on a plane to Blighty.

Absolutely and wonderfully well done to both of you, and thanks so much for sharing the details of your exploits.