Tribute to the SRT-4

[blindside.AMG]

Originally Posted by Jimster

No, Mercs are unreliable overpriced hunks of shit.


You're a Mercedes technician and that instantly gives weight to what you say about Mercedes, but what about BMW, how much experiecnce do you have with them?


We've had this discussion before, I've yet to see any evidence that BMW's quality control is anywhere lower than above the industry average at any of BMW's assembly facilities (South Carolina, South Africa, Munich, Regensburg and Dingolfing), owenership surveys are more or less reinforcing what I just said (I've yet to find one with BMW below the Industry average).


Though I think the best testament to BMW's reliability record is the Rover 75. The 600 and 800 models before it were basically Hondas with dodgy K or T series engines (and the 800 especially had a long list of problems). BMW donated thier engineering expertise to the 75 and all of a sudden in 2001 (it's first year in the JD Power survey of Britain), it found itself in the number 5 spot.

Also worth noting is that the BMW 3 series is the car that most UK motoring surveys get the most opinions about (Even more than cars like the Ford Focus and Vauxhall Corsa)


Funny that.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...400331,00.html

In it’s latest survey released in August, the UK-based consumer magazine Which? gave VW bad marks, putting it in the lowest “poor” category, a position it has now held for two years. Mercedes-Benz, which used to be in the top “best” category has steadily slipped two notches into the “average” category. Audi, once judged to be “good,” is now considered “poor,” and BMW has gone from “good” to “poor.”

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/ne...?news_id=10878

The ratings were as follows:
Excellent: Honda, Hyundai, Lexus, Mazda, Suzuki and Toyota
Good: Daihatsu, Ford, Nissan and Subaru
Average: Alfa Romeo, Jaguar, Jeep, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Mitsubishi. Porsche, Proton, Seat, Skoda and Volvo
Poor: Audi, BMW, Chrysler, Citroen, Daewoo, Fiat, Land Rover, Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Saab, Vauxhall and Volkswagen.

http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=20810

Audi, BMW and Volkswagen were all rated "poor" for reliability in the study by the Consumers' Association, while cars from Japanese and Korean manufacturers scored the highest with drivers.

[Jimster]

On that last one the fact that they put Alfa Romeo in "Average" instead of "downright ghastly" kind of blows the credibility out of the water. I had 2 156's and lost count of the times that the electrics played up on me (Don't even get me started on the poor fools who don't reguarly give the Twinspark engines the oil changes they require).

Then there's Skoda in the same catagorey, ummm.... Aside from having about the best customer care in the entire industry, the Octavia has consistently topped the JD Power survey, as well as the Auto Express and BBC motoring surveys for almost a decade and the Fabia has done the same for the last few years.


Add to that, the sample size is too small. (44 E Classes yet about 8000 are sold a year in the UK).


Still thanks for your reply all the more.

[blindside.AMG]

Originally Posted by Jimster

On that last one the fact that they put Alfa Romeo in "Average" instead of "downright ghastly" kind of blows the credibility out of the water. I had 2 156's and lost count of the times that the electrics played up on me (Don't even get me started on the poor fools who don't reguarly give the Twinspark engines the oil changes they require).

Then there's Skoda in the same catagorey, ummm.... Aside from having about the best customer care in the entire industry, the Octavia has consistently topped the JD Power survey, as well as the Auto Express and BBC motoring surveys for almost a decade and the Fabia has done the same for the last few years.


Add to that, the sample size is too small. (44 E Classes yet about 8000 are sold a year in the UK).


Still thanks for your reply all the more.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/ne...?news_id=11346

Jimster, you know as much as I do that German cars are slipping in the reliable department. Yes, the BMW 3-series is a good, reliable, vehicle but that doesn't go for the rest of the BMW line-up. The new 5 & 7 series are NOT reliable cars as far as I've read. And you're right, I don't have any experience with BMW's with the exception of my friends' parents 7-series which is falling apart as we speak. I guess we're both going to have to wait until these new german engineers get their hands on a new 3-series to make it unreliable.

[Jimster]

Yes, I'll agree that the number of electrical glitches on the new 5 and 7 series' is disturbing (and rather unsurprising considering the complexity of the cars). I'm rather interested to see how both the X3 and 1 series will fare, to be quite honest.

Though in all fairness, it's not the German workforce that's fully to blame, it's globalisation. The worst German cars as far as reliablility goes are usually not built in Germany, instead they are built in developing markets, these include: the Audi TT (Hungary), Volkswagen's PQ34 (Beetle, Golf, Jetta) models for the North American market(Mexico) and VW Touareg (Slovenia IIRC), Mercedes Benz M Class (Alabahma).


In all honesty though, the rise of the Japanese in Europe is probably going to be motivation enough for companies like VW and BMW to stop slacking off and pay full attention. If not then they'll end up like Fiat SpA (In debt and forced to actually improve quality or face extinction)

[kornflakes28546]

Originally Posted by blindside.AMG

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...400331,00.html

In it’s latest survey released in August, the UK-based consumer magazine Which? gave VW bad marks, putting it in the lowest “poor” category, a position it has now held for two years. Mercedes-Benz, which used to be in the top “best” category has steadily slipped two notches into the “average” category. Audi, once judged to be “good,” is now considered “poor,” and BMW has gone from “good” to “poor.”

http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/ne...?news_id=10878

The ratings were as follows:
Excellent: Honda, Hyundai, Lexus, Mazda, Suzuki and Toyota
Good: Daihatsu, Ford, Nissan and Subaru
Average: Alfa Romeo, Jaguar, Jeep, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Mitsubishi. Porsche, Proton, Seat, Skoda and Volvo
Poor: Audi, BMW, Chrysler, Citroen, Daewoo, Fiat, Land Rover, Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Saab, Vauxhall and Volkswagen.

http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=20810

Audi, BMW and Volkswagen were all rated "poor" for reliability in the study by the Consumers' Association, while cars from Japanese and Korean manufacturers scored the highest with drivers.

they ranked below Kia?? all i can say is... WOW