Which is better BG sycroshift II or Redline Heavy duty gear oil?!?!

[Blackcrow64]

Originally Posted by gthompson97

Why don't you just run Pennzoil Synchromesh then?

Lets let them run other stuff. Then you and I will have the best performing trannys on here. lol

[soyee7]

Originally Posted by Blackcrow64

Lets let them run other stuff. Then you and I will have the best performing trannys on here. lol

I thought gm sycromesh was the best too, untill i sheard the teeth off of second gear while not shifting hard at all. It turns out gm sycromesh does not bond to the gears very well to create a cushon for gear shock, also you must change it about every 5 thousand miles to really maintain its great properties otherwise it breaks down (ever wonder why its metalic colored when you change it). Not knocking it, it works great in older transmissions with high miles on them, in fact thats what i have in my tranny now (its a brand new TRE tranny), but im not too sure about it in new trannys. You guys may think you have the best trannys on here, but spend 2000 getting a tranny built and tell me you wouldnt be looking for the absolute best solution.

Trust me, ive been a member on these boards for about 4+ years now, i may not post a lot but thats because i research a lot. I wouldnt ask this question if it there was an undesputable solution.

[Blackcrow64]

Originally Posted by soyee7

I thought gm sycromesh was the best too, untill i sheard the teeth off of second gear while not shifting hard at all. It turns out gm sycromesh does not bond to the gears very well to create a cushon for gear shock, also you must change it about every 5 thousand miles to really maintain its great properties otherwise it breaks down (ever wonder why its metalic colored when you change it). Not knocking it, it works great in older transmissions with high miles on them, in fact thats what i have in my tranny now (its a brand new TRE tranny), but im not too sure about it in new trannys. You guys may think you have the best trannys on here, but spend 2000 getting a tranny built and tell me you wouldnt be looking for the absolute best solution.

Trust me, ive been a member on these boards for about 4+ years now, i may not post a lot but thats because i research a lot. I wouldnt ask this question if it there was an undesputable solution.

Umm, I do have about 2000 dollars into my tranny and I'm not talking about the GM synchromesh, I'm talking about the Pennzoil synchromesh. Different brands do run different chemicals in their fluids ya know. Pennzoil uses something that allows it to bond better to the gears. Kinda like the stuff they use in that Lucas oil if you've ever played with one of those gear things at an auto store. Trust me, I'm not gonna run some shitty stuff in my tranny after putting that much money into it. Thats the whole reason I talked to Shepherd about it after he built my tranny so I would know the best thing to run in it.

**EDIT**
BTW, I never said we had the best trannys on here. I said we would have the best PERFORMING trannys. That doesn't necessarily mean they are the best. Even though mine probably is one of the best built ones on here anyways.

[soyee7]

Originally Posted by Blackcrow64

Umm, I do have about 2000 dollars into my tranny and I'm not talking about the GM synchromesh, I'm talking about the Pennzoil synchromesh. Different brands do run different chemicals in their fluids ya know. Pennzoil uses something that allows it to bond better to the gears. Kinda like the stuff they use in that Lucas oil if you've ever played with one of those gear things at an auto store. Trust me, I'm not gonna run some shitty stuff in my tranny after putting that much money into it. Thats the whole reason I talked to Shepherd about it after he built my tranny so I would know the best thing to run in it.

**EDIT**
BTW, I never said we had the best trannys on here. I said we would have the best PERFORMING trannys. That doesn't necessarily mean they are the best. Even though mine probably is one of the best built ones on here anyways.

If you know so much about the fluid you put in your tranny you would know that penzoil makes gm sycromesh, and they both have the exact same chemical composition, read the penzoil bottle if you dont believe me. You should probably use the search button more because your answers sound a little uneducated, try backing them up with some facts if your gonna try to prove me wrong. Im sure jon shepard is a very smart guy and loves that stuff in his trannys, but i have a TRE tranny who does rebuilds slightly different than shep. Im glad yours is working fine, mine does too, but im always looking too improve.

[Blackcrow64]

Originally Posted by soyee7

If you know so much about the fluid you put in your tranny you would know that penzoil makes gm sycromesh, and they both have the exact same chemical composition, read the penzoil bottle if you dont believe me. You should probably use the search button more because your answers sound a little uneducated, try backing them up with some facts if your gonna try to prove me wrong. Im sure jon shepard is a very smart guy and loves that stuff in his trannys, but i have a TRE tranny who does rebuilds slightly different than shep. Im glad yours is working fine, mine does too, but im always looking too improve.

Well thank you for pointing out that Pennzoil makes the GM too but I wasn't trying to prove you wrong in anything. I'm just saying what Shepherd told me. Also, don't lecture me about the search button in this case cause it isn't gonna tell me the chemical compositions of the two...

Here's what I'm wondering though. If they make both then why are they labeling them different and selling them for different prices?

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by Blackcrow64

Here's what I'm wondering though. If they make both then why are they labeling them different and selling them for different prices?

Marketing does that sometimes. Like Eclipses/Talons/Lasers. The name makes up a lot of the price of a product, and the decision for consumers. This happens way to much in cars today imo. They seem different but it's just an image. Many cars made by completely different manufacturers that seem completely different are actually the same car with different body panels/marketing. I made a thread about this actually. Sorry for OT.

But I think this is a really good topic that I haven't seen covered that much. It'd be nice to get some conclusions on it so we can put it on dsm-one. If anyone has any threads or links or anything please post them.

And come on soyee, blackcrow was just saying what Shep told him.

[gthompson97]

Originally Posted by Blackcrow64

Here's what I'm wondering though. If they make both then why are they labeling them different and selling them for different prices?

Cause they can, it sounds stupid but if GM can take the exact same stuff as Pennzoil and jack up the price then more power to them I guess. I think it was Josh that said that you'll find some different brands of fluids that are the exact same composition as another, all because they were manufactured at the same place, but just bought out by different brands, kind of like wholesale. (I think that's the word i'm looking for). So Soyee was in fact right on that part.

Anywho, Soyee, if you're so intent on running the best fluid in your tranny, why don't you call TRE and ask them what they suggest? I know that's what I was planning on doing with my TRE tranny when my car is finally done and ready to go.

[soyee7]

Im sorry if i was harsh, i didnt mean to come off that way to Blackcrow64, i was just saying that one should do a little research first so they always have there facts strait, but thats what forums are for though so hopefully this thread will help a lot of people out.

Also, i did ask Jon Ripple at TRE and he said that BG II works good. But i also spoke to some fluid engineers who recomended a mixture of the redline because it is closer to the GL-4 that our trannys require and BG is closer to GL-5. Thats why im kind of torn on my decision right now. I figured who better to talk to than a whole DSM community to let me know what they experience 1st hand with the kinds of fluids they use.

I think what im gonna do though is try the BG II, and if it doesnt perform any better than the GM Sycromesh that i have in it right now im gonna try out the Redline. But please, any more input will be very helpful, and sorry again, didnt mean to come off as an asshole.

[BoostedSpyder]

i have seen numerous posts by kevin promoting BG synchroshift. unless he changed camps than i'm sure he is still on the same boat. i switched to that years ago and have had nothing but the best ever since...

from RRE's website...

BG Syncro Shift Transmission Oil

Specifically designed for what your DSM manual transmission needs. Thicker oils like 75W/90 can cause balky shifting especially when your transmission is cold, thin oils like ATF can help this but may not provide enough protection. BG's Syncro Shift is made with longer chain molecules and friction modifiers that make it superior to all other oils for FWD or AWD transmissions . It isn't a "transmission rebuild in a can" as some would have you believe but it works better than anything else we've found. Syncro Shift is for use in the transmission only. On AWD cars for the transfer case and rear differential we recommend Red Line's Heavy Weight Shock Proof Gear Lube.

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by BoostedSpyder

i have seen numerous posts by kevin promoting BG synchroshift.

See this is why I wanted to creat dsm-one. There is not way to find Kevin's posts on Syncroshift or any other trans. fluids. Seaching turns up no threads no matter how you put the term in. On dsm-one you'll just go to "tansmission," then "fluids," and it will be there. So much simpler.

[clipsekid99]

Alright, so since we have an almost equal amount of people for bg syncroshift compared to penzoil/gm syncromesh, I'm still undecided lol.

If I go with one over the other, it wouldn't hurt anything right? I'm talking about a daily driver, and only track car maybe once a month. The fluid is basicly just up to preference?

[Nayr747]

Ha, somehow I found one of Kevin's posts:

"Shepperds latest recomendation is one quart of Redline Shockproof heavy, and the rest Penzoil synchromesh (6 bucks a quart ). Total capacity on a DSM is around 2.5 quarts.

In the EVO he recomends straight penzoil, but it was so think I decided to add half a quart of Lucas Heavy. In sub 60 degree weather it's a bitch to get it into gear until I do a few miles to heat up the fluid. Once it heated up, or on a warm day, it shifts way better than the stock fluid did. Also be aware that many dealerships don't use "stock" fluid, the local Mitsu dealer has drums of Carquest generic fluid

I am inclined to trust Mr Shepperds judgement on this subject, but you can experiement a bit if you have to. You can adjust the mix ratio of the two fluids to account for the changing weather. Less heavy and more penzoil will make it happier in cold weather, but will provide less protection under load."
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...light=bg+fluid

Edit: More from Kevin:

"John Shepperd believes that running the synchromesh straight is too thin to provide enough protection. With all the trannies he tears down I'm inclined to trust his judgement. It changes every year or so, but his latest recomendation for DSM transmissions is 1 quart Shockproof Heavy and the rest Penzoil synchromesh. If this doesn't shift well enough in cold weather, you could increase the proportion of synchromesh to thin it out. In the summer I wouldn't run the stuff straight though.

In the EVO he recomends straight synchromesh, but I don't trust it, and I don't know why the recomendation is different. Last summer I ran half quart of heavy to the rest penzoil, but in cold weather I'm running it straight since it stays thicker, and I'm not racing.

It's more of an art than a science sometimes. Just gather the facts, listen to the poeple that work with this stuff day in and day out, come to some conclusion, and then try it out."
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...ght=shockproof

"I used to run straight 85-90 gear oil in the winter in MA, was a little stiff for the first few miles but no problem. The penzoil is quite thin, like BG, so with only one quart of the Heavy, I doubt you will have any trouble in cold weather.

Keep in mind that the heavy oil is not to improve shifting. In fact it more likely makes it worse. IT is there because when people run straight synchromesh oils that are lighter, there is a lot more wear in the tranny."
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...ght=shockproof

Oh, and apparently all the syncromesh fluids are the same: "Penzoil, Quaker State Synchromesh (Quaker State is part of Pennzoil), Texaco Synchromesh, GM Synchromesh, or AC Delco Synchromesh (part number 89021808). GM Synchromesh retails for about $10 per quart bottle at GM dealerships. Pennzoil Synchromesh is sold at many Auto Zone auto parts stores for about $5 per quart and should be available from Pennzoil distributors."

[Blackcrow64]

That said, why wouldn't he have told me to mix in the shockproof too?...


Looks like I'll have to talk to Mr. Shepherd again and get a straight answer that is the most recent.

[gthompson97]

And again...Kevin (or one of his posts) saves the day, I envy his knowledge.

[soyee7]

Originally Posted by Blackcrow64

That said, why wouldn't he have told me to mix in the shockproof too?...


Looks like I'll have to talk to Mr. Shepherd again and get a straight answer that is the most recent.

Let us know what he says!