1999 Durango 5.9L stalling issue

[Wireman3977]

This has been going on for the better part of two years, and more frequently now. When the engine reaches "normal opperating tempature" it will randomly just die. Stall right out. No sputtering, no engine lights. Just sudden engine death. After 10-60 min it will start back up, usually with no indication that anything was ever wrong. Followed the advice of many techs and have replaced all of the following:

plugs and wires
crank positioning sensor
cleaned throttle body and replaced ais motor
cleaned fuel tank and replaced fuel filter-pump assy.
battery is new
altenator is working properly
cap and rotor
air filters/pcv valve

Now I am down to what, the PCM? Can I use one from a slavage vehicle? And a mopar tech told me it must be from the same year as mine, why would that matter???

Also what is this I hear about the durango motors being "sludge factories"? Any preventitive measures I should take to avoid premature engine failure on my main family vehicle?

[t-bank]

Sorry I don't know any diagnostics that you can pull on the PCM but based on my personal experience, that would be my guess. Mine went out on my 99 just a shade under the 70K mile mark so the powertrain warranty covered it. Symptoms were very much like what you describe, totally random but the beast would just die without warning and no amount of cranking would turn it over. You might wait 20 minutes or an hour later and bang, off she'd go like nothing happened. I went through a lot of the same parts replacements that you have, all to no avail. My dealer couldn't make a positive diagnosis on what was causing the problem but after they talked to the Chrysler tech rep, he told them to replace the module. My guess is the dealer will rake you over the coals for a new one. I'd certainly check out the salvage yards first.

[t-bank]

Originally Posted by t-bank

Sorry I don't know any diagnostics that you can pull on the PCM but based on my personal experience, that would be my guess. Mine went out on my 99 just a shade under the 70K mile mark so the powertrain warranty covered it. Symptoms were very much like what you describe, totally random but the beast would just die without warning and no amount of cranking would turn it over. You might wait 20 minutes or an hour later and bang, off she'd go like nothing happened. I went through a lot of the same parts replacements that you have, all to no avail. My dealer couldn't make a positive diagnosis on what was causing the problem but after they talked to the Chrysler tech rep, he told them to replace the module. My guess is the dealer will rake you over the coals for a new one. I'd certainly check out the salvage yards first.

P.S. Sorry I forgot to mention, I have 140K on my D now with the 318
and narry a sludge problem. I always change the oil and filter religously every 3K miles and keep up with all the other maintenance. I'm hoping to hit 200K with a little luck!

[TracyH68]

I have the exact same problem with the exact same vehicle. I did most of the same things you've done to try to fix the problem. I had the crank shaft sensor replaced a few months ago and it stopped stalling, until last week. It's now doing the same thing. I'll be watching this thread hoping someone will know the answer and if I learn anything I'll post it here.
Tracy

[TracyH68]

I read on another forum someone that had a similar problem, he was taking his vehicle to the dealer for a fuel sync reset. Something to do with the crank and cam sensors being in sync with each other. I'm going to call the dealer today and see what they say. Ya never know.
Tracy

[TracyH68]

I changed the IAC valve today, it stalled once but started right back up, drove it around for awhile and it's ran great since. Time will tell I guess. It's difficult when your check engine light doesn't come on, the computer won't pull codes, you have a lot of guess work. I hope this did the trick.

[geezergeek]

Wireman:

My D had a similar problem that turned out to be the PCM, or should I say the heat in the engine compartment (eventually) damaged the PCM.

I would get a dash board computer message (displayed in the trip odometer VFD Display) that read: "NO BUS" I could cool down the pcm by pouring water over the heatsink side of the unit (the side of the pcm that is next to the wheel well. That would make it come back to life in about 3-5 minutes. The reason mine was (and maybe yours is too...) completely dead is due to the pcm activating the power control relay that (among otherthings) supplies 12v to the ignition system. I also did a few things to help reduce the under hood temps: a) put in a 180 degree T-Stat b) removed the insulation blanklet from the bottom of the hood. c) removed the rubber air blocking sheets from the front of the unit on the drivers side. Then I put in a powertrain control module from mopar performance. The airflow mods helped the pcm tolerate the under hood heat better, but it would still fail on hot days, hence thew new pcm. Note: I was able to get a moparPerformance pcm insteade of the stock one was that the performance unit was less expensive, not that I ddon't appreciate the performance enhancement. I just wanteded to fix the stall problem once and for all.

I have read that the pcm electronics main cicurcuit board will eventualy develop a microscopic crack from expanding and contracting from all of the times you use the vehicle, so without the airflow mods you may eventually start having the problem again in the future. I will probably add more vents to the engine area if possible and have toyed with the idea of sealing the pcm into the wheel well cavity to isolate it from the engine compartment. Maybe even reduct the air from the aircleaner input to flow over the PCM.

As an interim workaround initially I carried around a 5 gal can of water and soaked the pcm continuously if it stalled. Eventually I started to use a regular size bag of crushed ice from the convenience store that would fit over the top of the pcm while still allowing the hood to close. The ice was a better solution and would last the longest of the two approaches.

There are other cooling enhancements you should enshure you have on your rig that are documented in the technical service papers for the 1999 D, I got them via Alldata. (the tech bullitins) I have seen at least another fifty owners who have had this problem on their rigs, again I am not sure if this is your failure mode or not. Good luck with the final-final resolution either way, I know from personal experience how much of a pain it is to have the vehicle shut down when you are driving down the road, not to mention the hazzard it creates since it also takes away the power steering and power brakes. I got a couple of close calls during my diagnosis time that scared the heck out of me, but I didn't have the luxury of the use of a second vehicle. Best regards, Joe.

Originally Posted by Wireman3977

This has been going on for the better part of two years, and more frequently now. When the engine reaches "normal opperating tempature" it will randomly just die. Stall right out. No sputtering, no engine lights. Just sudden engine death. After 10-60 min it will start back up, usually with no indication that anything was ever wrong. Followed the advice of many techs and have replaced all of the following:

plugs and wires
crank positioning sensor
cleaned throttle body and replaced ais motor
cleaned fuel tank and replaced fuel filter-pump assy.
battery is new
altenator is working properly
cap and rotor
air filters/pcv valve

Now I am down to what, the PCM? Can I use one from a slavage vehicle? And a mopar tech told me it must be from the same year as mine, why would that matter???

Also what is this I hear about the durango motors being "sludge factories"? Any preventitive measures I should take to avoid premature engine failure on my main family vehicle?

[dmburrows]

With the mopar PCM, don't you have to use premium gas?

[StratusDweller]

I'm having the same problem with my '96 Stratus ES. First time it died on the West Side Highway... scary! Now it died today 1 block from work. GRRR.

[eagleman603]

I had a similar problem a year ago. I have the 5.9L with the big axle ratio and use the rig to regularly pull a 2-horse trailer. The problem first appeared with blown fuses and AC blowing hot. Had the horse trailer re-wired and the trailer plug-in on the Durango replaced. No more blown fuses, but had stalling and a seeming lack of power. At 98144 miles, had the PCM replaced -- it had a crack. Cost $894 in June 2005. July 2006 stalling problems and hot AC recurred. Dealer found nothing. Stalled on the way home from dealer. Took it back and they decided it was the PCM AGAIN. Now the car has 114140 miles on it. (This time they said they couldn't see anything wrong with the PCM). Cost $1009. Shouldn't a PCM last more than 16,000 miles? I'm going to be really crabby if I have to replace this again next year.

[steelerguy]

Originally Posted by eagleman603

I had a similar problem a year ago. I have the 5.9L with the big axle ratio and use the rig to regularly pull a 2-horse trailer. The problem first appeared with blown fuses and AC blowing hot. Had the horse trailer re-wired and the trailer plug-in on the Durango replaced. No more blown fuses, but had stalling and a seeming lack of power. At 98144 miles, had the PCM replaced -- it had a crack. Cost $894 in June 2005. July 2006 stalling problems and hot AC recurred. Dealer found nothing. Stalled on the way home from dealer. Took it back and they decided it was the PCM AGAIN. Now the car has 114140 miles on it. (This time they said they couldn't see anything wrong with the PCM). Cost $1009. Shouldn't a PCM last more than 16,000 miles? I'm going to be really crabby if I have to replace this again next year.

Before you pay these ripoff artists again, call a NAPA parts store. I just called mine in for a 99 durango with a 5.9, 115,000 miles. It is $289. Part #XTP90147. Make sure you call because they ask a lot of questions & you might need a different one. Mine is not California emmissions for instance. You have to give them your VIN # & approximate mileage & the get you a remanufactured one that is flash programmed for your miles & VIN. You have to pay for it ahead of time & exchange your old one when it comes in. Takes about a week.

I think it's right on the firewall on most models & requires no special tools or testers to install it.

Dealerships are just as bad if not worse than any repair shop for overcharging & misdiagnosing.

And yeah your part only lasting 16,000 miles is ridiculous. Make sure that the vents cirulate air through the engine compartment are not clogged & that wires or cooling hoses have not been misrouted close to it from prior maintenance. These things are sensitive & can lose their flash for a spark plug wire being misrouted too close to it.

You could try pulling it & having it reflashed by a local shop if you want. May take a few phone calls if you can even find somebody. I heard that is $75. If they already troubleshot it & are sure that it must be replaced, call NAPA or somebody that is willing to work with you without charging triple the reasonable cost of repair. Betcha $20 the dealership uses the same place as the parts store as a parts source.

[Custnam]

Hello guys. I have another 99 D, with 129000 miles. I have tried it all. Even had the ECM "rebuilt"and I say it in quotes because I found out that it was NEVER rebuilt. I took it to Napa Auto parts for the express rebuild and return service for ECM'S. So Expressly I got it back in 2 and a half weeks due to a shipping problem. I installed it, and guess what. The good old NO BUS was back. So I replaced the crank sensor after reading several other posts. I thought it was fixed, but we were having cooler weather so it wasnt really an accurate test because we all know that the hotter outside it is, the worse and more frequent it happens. So the 1st 90 plus degree day comes and it happens 4 times on my lunch break so needless to say at this point im furious. So out of curiosity I pulled the front plate off the ECM and looked at it again. I noticed that the same exact dust and cooling gel stuff was in there as there was prior to the "rebuild" ANd the only thing that was differnet was a couple probe marks where the guys at "CARDONE" had tested it. So it was never rebuilt like they had said. Let me rewind a little, when I turned it into Napa auto parts, I in very good detail explained that this was an intermittent problem and that if their rebuild company only tested it that it would show up fine in a typical bench test setting. And that this only happens in hot weather. The parts guy assured me that he would include a detailed letter that asked for the rebuild service no matter what, and that when CARDONE gets an ECM and only tests it that noone is charged, including Napa Auto parts. So when it came back with a $300 receipt and a R and R tag all was assumed that it was rebuilt and good to go. So back to where I was, I took it apart and noticed the exact same gel, dusty still, and 3 small probe marks where they had taken a multi meter to it. So I go back to Napa, argue with one of the guys for awhile, get bounced around from guy to guy, then I explain the to "manager on duty cuz the real ones on vacation" that I know the thing was not rebuilt. And he says he will call them. So I get a voice mail from him saying that they had put it in a freezer to test cold conditions, a heater to test hot conditions and that theres nothing wrong. So the guy stuck his own foot in his mouth right then by saying it was only tested. So I call him back, he tells me that the charges were for the testing, contradicting himself, the manager and the original parts guy when they had said noone gets charged for testing only. He gets all pissy and says he doesnt want to argue with me, and that he will call around and call me back. So I take this as a way for him to just get off the phone. I get another message back saying bring in the reciept and he will refund my money. So after this long drawn out story Im exactly where I was a month ago when this fiasco with Napa auto started. So to any of you looking into the rebuild service, if you have the NO BUS problem, they will only test it and send it back as good. So Im looking at new ones right now. The cheapest I found for mine, which is a California model is $418. But I read another post where a guy bought a OEM one and 16000 miles later the ECM had gone out again. SO Im leaning towards the MOPAR one. I know it will cut my mileage, but at this point I dont care, it wont even run 5 minutes right now. Weve had about 10 days straight of 100+ degree weather, hitting highs of 114.

[Custnam]

PS ... GEEZERGEEK. Can you tell me where you got your MOPAR ECM, did you have to get the VIN # flashed into it so the ABS and BRAKE lights wouldnt go on, and do they make the California compatible one. If I can find one Im going to buy it despite the gas mileage drop. And is it true that you have to use premium gas? Thanks alot. I have to get this thing fixed ASAP. Riding my motorcycle to work is getting old, its SOOOO hot lately.

[steelerguy]

Originally Posted by Custnam

PS ... GEEZERGEEK. Can you tell me where you got your MOPAR ECM, did you have to get the VIN # flashed into it so the ABS and BRAKE lights wouldnt go on, and do they make the California compatible one. If I can find one Im going to buy it despite the gas mileage drop. And is it true that you have to use premium gas? Thanks alot. I have to get this thing fixed ASAP. Riding my motorcycle to work is getting old, its SOOOO hot lately.

Are we talking ECM or PCM? Are they the same thing? The prices look about the same between your & my previous posts. Since I have about 115K on my Durango & go through plus 110 degree heat every year in Phoenix, I am expecting this problem some day.

[Custnam]

Ok, so I went to a junkyard, got one that they said MAY work, so because they werent sure I had them write down on the receipt that they will refund my money if it didnt work. So I get home and install it, and nope.... the NO BUS was there right away, without even a start. So I started thinking, heat makes this happen. So me being the tweek fabricator that I am I built a 12volt fan with a toggle switch ran under my dash so I could start and stop it from the drivers seat, into the front plate of my original ecm. Took awhile, but I finally got it all to work. Started the D, let it idle for awhile and KAPOOT died again. So I took the used junkyard ECM back to the junkyard, got my money back, and I ordered a remanufactured one from ECUDIRECT.COM ....they sell them for around 400, flashed already and shipped. This is my absolute effort on this POS. If this doesnt fix it im calling the bank and telling them they can come and get it. Im already several months behind anyway in the payment trying to get it fixed. So its a voluntary repo if this new computer doesnt fix it.