Debate: Are ghosts real or not?

[fredjacksonsan]

In another thread a ghost was referred to. Some people believe, and others say it's a bunch of hooey.

I've experienced a "presence". I lived in an old house. In the house there was a spot near the cellar that would sometimes be very cold, even in summer; but not always. If you went down into the cellar it was normally cool. But sometimes it would be really cold, for no reason. And it was very difficult to go down the cellar stairs when it was cold.

But there's more. One time while studying (yes, college and I've never done hallucinogens) I thought I saw a shadow run by the door. The afterimage on my eyes was of a small girl in a lacy dress. A few weeks later was discussing with roommates, and another person in the house had seen the same thing. We were both amazed that our descriptions were so similar.

More: Once while sitting near the cellar I was, again, studying. It was warm. Then, the hair on the back of my neck went up, and it became very cold. I said, "Hello, Anna" then a couple minutes later the cold went away.

Why Anna? Some of the people in the house were history grad students, and they researched the house and the people that had lived in it. A little girl, about 5 years old named Anna had lived in the house in the 1800's, and died there.

But there's more. Their research showed that Anna liked to bake, and had died at about 5 years of age. The baking was, if I remember correctly, documented in a letter from Anna's parents to a relative. They even found a picture of three little girls, that were said to be the children that had lived in the house. The middle child was said to be Anna. She was wearing a lace dress.

The history majors framed the picture and put it on the mantle over the fireplace. A few days later, we came into the house and the picture had fallen off the shelf. A single crack ran from top to bottom through the middle of the glass - right through Anna's picture. There were no other cracks or damage of any kind to either frame, glass, or pictures.

What really clinched it for me though was this:
Once the oven door opened by itself. Ka-bam. I was in the other room and went to investigate. I go to see what's up, find it open. I tested the spring - normal. I open it a couple inches, it closes back up by itself. I'd have to pull it down to within a few degrees of horizontal to get it to fall horizontal. Humph. Back to the living room. Couple minutes later, it slammed open again. There was no one else in the house and the doors were locked. I went back near the cellar - yep, cold.

There are ghosts.

[-Josh-]

No ghosts IMO

[fredjacksonsan]

I think you just haven't experienced one.

[-Josh-]

I have a redneck grandfather, born in a shack in the hills of Kentucky, who always used to claim to see ghosts every night outside the house. After dealing with someone like this my whole life, i dont believe there are ghosts.

[fredjacksonsan]

I can see your position, you'd get the point of like, sure Grandpa, whatever. Did you ever go out there with him and "watch the ghosts" or did you just conclude he was full of it from the start?

[Ace$nyper]

I say yes but i dunno abouth the whole capser seeing kinda thing but i deff belive in some form of post life "living"

[Retard324]

in my first house we know there were ghosts. we would hear snoring on the couch where my grandfather would normally fall asleep watching tv. the tv once did turn itself on. it was usually pretty cold only around the couch. also my mothers cat died there, i remember one night it felt like one of our cats were walking on my bed, but when i looked there was nothing there. so we also had a ghost cat, an her name was Boo. just thought i'd share that part.

[Raz_Kaz]

I eouldn't say there are ghosts since I;ve never had any encounters and I wouldn;t say there aren't there because u can't make that assumption.

[thrasher]

Of course ghosts aren't real, in an absolute sense anyway. You can convince yourself of anything. The mind is a very powerful tool capable of self deception to a very large degree.

[2Slow4U_Noob]

Yes I think there are definitly ghosts, I've never had an experience myself, and I'm not sure if I would want too either. I'm an open minded person and believe most people wouldnt just make stuff up although I do think in some circumstances people just have too vivid an imaginiation or are too quick to call it a ghost.

[chacal]

Yes, there are ghosts! My wallet is full of them before pay day!

I can't believe this. This is the 21st century! People, wake up!

Recommended site: http://www.csicop.org

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by thrasher

Of course ghosts aren't real, in an absolute sense anyway. You can convince yourself of anything. The mind is a very powerful tool capable of self deception to a very large degree.

But what IS absolute if they're a spirit? Surely they're not material; perhaps another dimension which just touches ours. Physics is looking into wormholes, alternate universes, etc.

As far as self deception, some of the things that happened in that house occurred before we'd ever talked about a ghost or the history people did their research. I know what I personally experienced.

[chacal]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

As far as self deception, some of the things that happened in that house occurred before we'd ever talked about a ghost or the history people did their research. I know what I personally experienced.

Some people are believers! They are born this way. Do you think everyone who fell for the Nigeria Oil scam was talked about falling in stupid scams beforehand?

You were born believing in ghosts - that's your fate, mate!

This is a useless thread. Nobody will change his mind.

I challenge: prove ghosts exist. Prove it scientifically. Nobody ever did that. There are prizes for those who can. James Randi will pay a one-million-dollar prize. See http://www.randi.org/.

If you can convince James Randi, even I will start believing!

[fredjacksonsan]

Prove they DON't exist.

And if Mr. Randi is to make the decision whether or not he's convinced, he'll never pay out his money.

[fredjacksonsan]

And Chacal; if some were born to believe, then some were born NOT to believe, and I take it you're one of them.

What would it take for you to believe?