Passlock System

[raycorri]

Originally Posted by troy1

best to put the switch in there like the TSB says instead of cutting the wire

I assume you mean cutting the wire while the engine is running? Yeah, I had already made my modification before I found the UIB(Upfitter Integration Bulletin). It would have saved me some gas $. It's nice to have this bulletin as confirmation. I also wired my toggle backwards from the way it suggests. (On for Passlock Enable---Off for Passlock Disable.) Either way, it works.

Ray

Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by raycorri

I see your point and certainly understand your concern. The initial question was something to the effect of, "Is it possible and has anyone done it?" This bulletin from GM clearly describes the procedure that I used (or should have used) on my vehicle and addresses all of the concerns that you mentioned.(ie.-battery disconnect or dead battery.)(Incidentally, I disconnected my battery for a day and reconnected it. Then I placed my toggle switch in the Enable mode to put the system back on as in this bulletin. The car started up fine. I then disabled the Passlock again with no problems.) Please print out this document and have your friend read it. Maybe he can shed some further light on it.
http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/bull/bull26.pdf

I agree with you that you need to get the vehicle running without any Security light flashing or staying on before you start this modification. Once the "Hall Effect Sensor" goes completely bad in the Ignition Lock Cylinder it's too late to try this method. You will just have to replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder before you can get the car to start again. Those of us that have had numerous failures with the Ignition Lock Cylinder are just too fed up and too broke to not try something else.

As for the term Passlock, I don't know what to tell you. The above document from GM and my 2002 Alero Owner's Manual refer to it as Passlock. This Motor Age article gives a brief history of GM's anti-theft systems also:

http://www.motorage.com/motorage/dat...09/article.pdf

The Vehicle Anti Theft System (VATS) was first installed on the 1985 Corvette. The Personal Anti-theft Security
System (PASSkey) replaced VATS in 1988, and while there
are some differences, VATS and Passkey I and II all work
the same way. There is no radio communication involved;
the system merely looks for the ignition key’s unique electronic
signature. Passkey III and the newer Passlock systems
were introduced in 1998, but the earlier systems
weren’t completely phased out until 2003.

Here's another document explaining the Passlock sensors:

Document ID# 468000
1998 Oldsmobile Cutlass

Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Description

Important
Due to component variability, the vehicle theft deterrent (VTD) system must have the learn procedure performed regardless, if the vehicle starts on the first ignition cycle after a VTD repair.

All codes in the theft deterrent module must be cleared for a relearn.

The vehicle theft deterrent system is designed in order to prevent vehicle theft by disabling the fuel injectors unless the lock cylinder is correctly engaged by a mechanical key. The theft deterrent system uses the following 4 components for theft prevention:

The lock cylinder
The ignition switch
The body control module (BCM)
The powertrain control module (PCM)
When starting the engine, the PCM searches for a password from the BCM through the Class 2 serial data circuit. If the password is not recognized or not present, the PCM will disable the engine. Two modes of tamper detection are provided:

No password received The engine will start and stall quickly. SECURITY telltale will flash on the instrument panel cluster (IPC) and then stay ON steady.
Incorrect or disable password received (More than 3 invalid passwords are received) The engine is disabled for at least 10 minutes and the SECURITY telltale will illuminate solid on the IPC during the 10 minutes.
After the vehicle has passed theft detection, the PCM will continue normal operation.

Ignition Switch
The mechanical key and lock cylinder is located in the instrument panel assembly. The electrical switching portion of the assembly is separate from the key and lock cylinder. Both of the components are synchronized and work in conjunction through the action of the actuator rod assembly.

Passlock™ Lock Cylinder
The Passlock™ lock cylinder is a locking cylinder that turns a rotating magnet past a stationary hall effect sensor. This action creates the Passlock™ cylinder data. The Passlock™ cylinder data is sent to the body control module (BCM). The Passlock™ lock cylinder is interfaced with the BCM via a 3-wire connection:

Power
Ground
Data

Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is located on the lower left side of the instrument panel.

The PCM communicates with the body control module (BCM) via serial data over the class 2 serial data bus, CKT 1807. When the BCM determines a passed theft condition, the BCM sends a coded password to the PCM. When the PCM receives the correct password, the PCM enables the fuel injection system, allowing the vehicle to operate correctly. The PCM may allow the car to start and quickly stall during a failed theft condition.

The following conditions may cause the PCM to enter a tamper mode:

A bad timing cycle
An incorrect password
If the BCM does not receive a password within a preset time window, the BCM will enter a short tamper mode. During this mode, the PCM will not allow the car to operate for 4 seconds.

If the password is incorrect, the PCM will enter the long tamper mode. In the long tamper mode, the following actions will occur:

The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will flash.
The fuel injectors will be shut off for approximately 10 minutes.
Although the vehicle may start, the engine will quickly stall due to a fuel cut-off.

In the event of an open in the serial data communication between the BCM and the PCM, the following actions occur:

The PCM will become fail-enabled if the car has already passed theft for that ignition cycle (i.e. the engine is running).
The PCM may set the diagnostic trouble codes (DTC).
The THEFT SYSTEM indicator will light continuously.
The PCM will become fail-enabled for future ignition cycles.
If a failure occurs in serial data before the ignition cycle, while the PCM is not fail-enabled, the PCM will never receive a valid password in order to enable the continued use of the fuel injectors.


All of that to say this...... This is really a great forum. You are able to question the information that I provided because you really care that others are hearing all sides of the discussion. I question your friend's information too. Has he seen the Motor Age article or the TSB that I have referred to? A title doesn't necessarily make him right. That's not an attack on him by any means. You know none of this would be necessary if GM would just stand up and take responsibility for a defect. I'm not willing to spend another penny on this problem. I started posting this "one way of doing it" because I have rarely seen other posts actually give a different answer other than "take it to the GM dealership." I questioned a few dealerships and they "will not disable Passlock or Passkey" for anyone.(If they told us how to do it ourselves they would have to kill us.) So this means they "will replace the Ignition Lock Cylinder" for a nominal fee. Honestly, I'm just trying to help other desperate people out there. You know what they say, "Desperate people do desperate things." I think this modification works great!


Just one more thing. Why is it that we never see any posts on this forum of people who are happy with their Passlock or Passkey. You know, like, "Passlock really saved my car from being ripped off!" Hooray! I'm not ready to relinquish my membership in The Anti-Passlock Club just yet.

Ray

My advise is still proceed with caution.
Gm uses 4-5 different anti theft systems depending on year and make and model. The wrong disconnect or jump can shut down or wipe out the pcm or body module or theft module.
I know it takes money to fix the system if it gives problems and the dealer do not help any. They to often just replace everything.
And a lot of people just want to bypass the hole sysem.
When a lot of trouble is just a simple dirty connection or loose wire or
pcm or body module or theft module or what ever.
When a system acts up it should be tested out first thing. To find out for sure what it is.
The wire disconnect you showed us may fix the problem on some but it depends on the problem or what it is.
I can not see it being a fix all for all modles and systems.

On that GM Upfitter integeration Truck Group UI bulletin # 26 is it from GM or a GM factory bulletion or from other source?
I can not find it in any of my repair programs.
MT

[SpinnerCee]

I have seen the same no-start on a 2001 Impala -- I actually called the dealer, and they told me this "procedure" over the phone:

Turn Key to on position, wait 5 minutes, turn key to start.... Vrooooom!

It worked! I told the dealer, and he suggested I bring the thing in anyway because it wil probably "happen again"

This was the first time, so we'll wait and see...

Anyways, thanks for the info in this thread, it really helped me....

[MT-2500]

SpinnerCee
It was giving you a warning.
You need to get it tested out.
You were luckie and got it to override and start.
The next time it may or not overide.
But again proceed with caution on trying to bypass or fix it.
The Impala 01 is a long way from a 01 malibu that only has one theft system.
The 01 Impala has 3 different anti theft systems.
Passlock TM system
Content Theft Deterrent CTD system
Vehicle Theft Deterent VTD system
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/01impala.pdf
First step in repair or check out is to get it on a body capable scanner and check for codes past and present.
And as soon after it acts up as you can get it checked.
Good Luck MT

[MT-2500]

SpinnerCee and 00-05 Impala Monte Carlo owners.
Here is A GM tsb that may help on anti theft no start.
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/Impala%20.pdf
MT

[MT-2500]

SpinnerCee and 00-05 Impala Monte Carlo owners.
Here is A GM tsb that may help on anti theft no start.
http://members.troublecodes.net/crunch/Impala%20.pdf
MT

[raycorri]

Originally Posted by MT-2500

I can not see it being a fix all for all modles and systems.

On that GM Upfitter integeration Truck Group UI bulletin # 26 is it from GM or a GM factory bulletion or from other source?
I can not find it in any of my repair programs.
MT

Hey MT, I concede after reading your info on the Impala.(Maybe not a fix for all models and systems.) They don't have a bare bones ride like mine.(2002 Alero-no key fob or Content Theft Deterrent CTD system.) I am still very interested in hearing back from kees45 on his modification results. (To see if he is having any adverse effects.) I am not privy to most TSBs that you might be able to access. I find whatever I can by Googling. I just happened to put in the right keywords to find that GM Upfitter bulletin. This is what I could find as the source:

Technical Bulletins

The Technical Bulletin Process informs manufacturers of any product changes or issues that may affect their designs. The need for a bulletin may come from:
a. A GM Vehicle Engineering source such as a Mock-up review, where a product change requires an upfitter design or manufacturing modification;

b. One or more upfitters who have expressed repetitive concerns or experienced a frequent
vehicle difficulty.
The investigation process for a bulletin is similar to a Hotline request in that an Upfitter Integration Vehicle Engineer is assigned the responsibility of researching the situation; however, a question or concern only becomes a bulletin when it is judged to affect all upfitters or an entire vehicle platform and any resolution needs to be communicated to every concerned party. Engineering drawings that illustrate the issues and highlight corrective action measures or possible redesigns are gathered, the Bulletin goes through a review and approval process by all affected areas within GM Vehicle Engineering, and is then published and distributed to the entire upfitter community.

So, I guess that bulletin came from GM Vehicle Engineering.(Dated 4/22/99) The upfitter community appears to deal mostly with GM Fleet Trucks and Vans.

Anyhow, Thanks for your continued input!
Ray
Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club

[raycorri]

kees45 has replied back at this thread!

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=500103

Ray

[MT-2500]

Raycorri
Thank for posting back with the info on the upfitters bulletin.
It would be nice and a lot simpler if the manfactures would make the anti theft systems where you could turn them off or disable them if they give problems or if a person does not want them.
Good luck MT

[raycorri]

Originally Posted by MT-2500

Raycorri
Thank for posting back with the info on the upfitters bulletin.
It would be nice and a lot simpler if the manfactures would make the anti theft systems where you could turn them off or disable them if they give problems or if a person does not want them.
Good luck MT

I just thought that this thread has gotten so involved that I might as well put this info out there as well for people to read. Here's all that you ever wanted to know (and a whole lot that you didn't want to know) about Passlock and Passkey/VATS and which keys use resistors and why sometimes Glove Box, Trunk, or Door Keys will or will not start the car. Have fun wading through this stuff!

http://www.insurorsservicebureau.co...ical/ISB_QA.pdf

PASSLOCK I, NEW GM SECURITY SYSTEM(Page4)
http://www.techtrainproductions.com/bulletin/ttb_14.pdf

GM TEN-CUT BITTING: A STUDY IN CONFUSION (Page 7)
http://www.techtrainproductions.com/bulletin/ttb_15.pdf

Ray - Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club

[maliblue98]

I have been struggling with this Passlock II (Malibu 1998) issue for the past year, and it seems to be getting worse. I am thinking of going with raycorri's method as I don't care to have the "sercurity" or having the theft-light on while driving. My only concern is the possible battery issue MT-2500 brought up, I am not entirely sure if this was concluded to be irrelavant or not. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I am hoping to save some time, money and hassle of having a dealer fix this issue. If anyone knows a knowledgable and reasonably priced dealing in the California Bay Area I might be willing to spend to fix it.

Thanks to everyone, especially raycorri, for this thread. I know this thread has helped many owners of Passlock systems.

[raycorri]

Originally Posted by maliblue98

My only concern is the possible battery issue MT-2500 brought up, I am not entirely sure if this was concluded to be irrelavant or not. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I am hoping to save some time, money and hassle of having a dealer fix this issue.

I think we just kind of agreed to somewhat disagree on the battery issue. The GM upfitter engineering bulletin is written pertaining to Passlock disablement for Trucks and Vans. I just took these ideas and found the Passlock wires in my car. Here is what it says about a disconnected battery:

NOTICE
Any condition which removes battery power from the Vehicle Control Module/Powertrain
Control Module (VCM/PCM) (e.g. dead battery, disconnected harness connectors, etc.) will
prevent the vehicle from being restarted. If the engine exhibits a “cranks but will not
start” symptom, check to make sure that the modification switch is in the OFF (contacts closed) position.

That last little bit should probably read (as it pertains to us):If the engine exhibits a “cranks but will not start” symptom, place the modification switch in the OFF (contacts closed ) position.

So, some questions you will need to ask yourself, at least from my point of view are: How many times in the past has your battery died or have you disconnected your battery? I had to have my car towed way more times for passlock issues than for a dead battery or disconnect.

It is my hope that others like yourself will report back to this thread with successes or failures pertaining to this modification. (Months or even years from now!) Good luck and I'm sure you will make the right decision based on your particular situation and point of view.

Ray Proud Member of The Anti-Passlock Club

[bopdancer]

I wish that i had read this before my car stopped starting. My secerity light flashes. I can not start my car. I took it to a car repair shop. They tell me that I need new ignition module. Is there any way that i can get around replacing the module now that my lite is flashing or do I have to replace it. t

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by bopdancer

I wish that i had read this before my car stopped starting. My secerity light flashes. I can not start my car. I took it to a car repair shop. They tell me that I need new ignition module. Is there any way that i can get around replacing the module now that my lite is flashing or do I have to replace it. t

Welcome to your first post on AF.
Before anybody can help you on your car.
We need the year make and model and eng and trans and mileage. And also what the garage found.
Did they find a ign module on the eng/ign/coil spark system or the the anti theft system module/ign key switch bad?
The bypass on the anti theft system that was talked about only pertains to certain models and certain anti theft systems.
Also the best I understand it it has to be done with the engine running.
No run and you may not be able to perform that certain bypass.
Have you tried leaving the key on 10-20-30 minutes to over ride the system and see if it will start?
If the security light is flashing and you have a no start I would suggest you get the codes out of the body computer first.
And post them back along with the make and model and year and engine sise.
MT

[bopdancer]

I have a 1997 Oldsmobile 88. It has the passkey II (key with resister in it)system on it. 3800 engine and auto transmition. The security light flashes and will not turn over. The battery has gone dead and will not take charge anymore. the shop did not tell me of any codes. they said they would have to install ignition module of some kind. will not be able to find out for sure until monday.