Which winter "rubber" to pick???

[spike88]

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My wife has an '09 Montana EWB (FWD with both TCS & Stability track system). Was told to get Winter Tires installed "on all 4 wheels". Especially when we cross the border into Quebec - to visit my sister's home. If wondering, "winter certified" rubber in Quebec is mandatory between Dec 15 and mid April (their winter months).

Of the below tires (which my local auto shop sells), which do you recommend?

A - Hankook Winter IPike W409 (bi-directional) (* see below)
B - BF Goodrich Winter Snow & Ice
C - Toyo G-02
D - Dunlop Grandtrek
E - Good Year Ultra Grip ICE

If wondering, my local auto garage recommends product A (Hankook Winter IPike W409) as a great "best product for cost" rubber. Mostly because it has a tread design like large tractors. re: Self cleaning track - which is great for mud / snow - the majority of my local driving conditions. Not too sure if this is true, but it "sounded great" to me. LOL!!!

What winter "rubber" do you recommend for my wife's mini-van (for down to -40 F winter conditions)?

thanks.

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[spike88]

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If into tire research (to buy new tires or confirm one's existing tires), I'd like to recommend an indepth web site. re: http://www.1010tires.com/

Either by vehicle or by tire brand, one can perform "drill downs". One can see its many different sizes, picture of its tread design, their selling prices (do shop around because prices do vary), different "seasonal class" groupings and most importantly, "User Review Ratings".

From User Review ratings, I was surprised the "Hankook Winter IPike W409 (bi-directional)" tire (that was recommended by my Auto Shop MGR) has slightly higher User Rating then Bridgestone Blizzak WS60 tire. In my area, Blizzak WS60 tire has a reputation of being "like super sticky tape on a smooth surface road" (yes - super great winter time traction). Sounds like "Hankook Winter IPike W409 (bi-directional)" is even better.

If you do need to purchase tires (for an early Christmas present excuse - LOL!!!), do use http://www.1010tires.com/ as one of your pre-buying research sources.

Hope this helps others....

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['97ventureowner]

That's looks to be another good site for tire research, as it looks similar in setup to www.tirerack.com.
I did notice their prices are quite a bit higher. I just purchased Winterforce tires for my Uplander this past Monday and paid $84 each, whereas the other site has them for $147.99 US. Tirerack lists Bridgestone Blizzak WS60 at $108 and the other site has them for $ 166.99 US. It pays to shop around taking into consideration shipping charges and such. I paid roughly $40 for shipping and they arrived just about 24 hours from the time I placed my order online. Just an FYI for anybody also looking for winter tires, Tirerack is running a promotion where you buy certain winter tires in a set of 4 and can get either a $25 or $50 American Express gift card ( almost like a rebate).More info can be found here I am getting a $25 card. The more expensive tires garner a $50 card and the ones eligible are listed in that link. Offer expires next week though so if one wants to take advantage, they need to hurry.
Also budget for rims for your tires. I got lucky a couple weeks back and found a set of 3 steel wheels from an '06 Saturn Relay for $65/ea.at a local yard. The guy gave them to me for $50/ea since I bought all 3. Now I need to locate one more and the cheapest I found was $65 at another yard a half hour away. Prices for these used vary greatly so it pays to shop around for them also. A couple other yards I called varied in price from $65 to over $100/ea.

[spike88]

I agree '97ventureowner.

Definately shop around for "best pricing" (after all factors are taken into account). For my van, my one local auto store (with 2 auto bays) is selling steel rims for $69 each. My local auto shop sells the same steel rim for $65. My one local auto store adds other things in (like valve stems, mounting on rims, balancing, etc.). My local auto shop "includes" these many items. A few tire manufacture currently offer mail-in rebates, and other tire manufactures do NOT. Also include one's transportation cost of "shopping around" as well. For example: My local auto shop is within walking distance. For my local auto store, its 20 minute drive away. If I pick this place for install, I need my wife to pick me up and return me (or wait entire afternoon for their install completion). For my local auto shop, I simply drop off in AM, walk home (4 minute walk) and before closing, I walk back, pay the bill and drive my van home. Very clean and simple (without taking an afternoon off work). With the above in mind, one needs take all "related items" into consideration as well. Overall, it's more then just "listed selling price" that one needs to take into account...

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['97ventureowner]

Those rims you mention in your post, are they new or used? That's a fairly good price as you guys up there in Canada must be hoarding them . I check www.car-part.com once in awhile to see if any yards within a reasonable distance have any in stock. I think it was a stroke of luck that the one I bought my 3 from had them in their inventory at that specific time. This yard is also the closest one to me at a distance of 3 miles. I can do a search close to my area on that site and arrange the results of my search to start at the lowest price or the closest distance to my zip code. When I did the search last week there was one for $65 19 miles away and the next available one was 137 miles away . The prices across the country seem to be high for these steel rims , much more than my old Venture.Many years ago when I bought my snows from Tirerack, I was also able to buy brand new steel wheels from them for only $35. They shipped them to me completely mounted and balanced, all I had to do was install them.That was great. If I wanted to do the same thing this time around with the Uplander, I would have to pay at least $876 before shipping. (I paid about $215 incl shipping for 2 mounted and balanced snows for the Venture.) Tirerack doesn't even carry steel rims for the Uplander , only alloys at $135 ea.
I agree it pays to shop around for services. We have a few tire dealers in our area and they are always advertising that they are better than the others. One boasts that their "out the door pricing" they quote contains everything including mount, balance, new valve stems, and even disposal of old tires. They claim the quotes you get from others don't include everything and you pay more than their quote. With Tirerack, if you buy from them, they have "recommended installers" in your area that offer a special price to Tirerack customers who can have the tires they order either shipped to their residence or the installers' place of business , and then have them mounted and balanced on your rims. Most of the installers have their prices listed on the site and what the price includes so it makes it easier to shop and compare. The Internet is a great tool for shopping around and getting the best price and service all the while saving time and gas. By comparing prices on the Internet I was able to put together my own tire and wheels package, and have them installed locally at a place a few minutes from me for about $679. If I went with the package that Tirerack put together I would've had to pay over $225 more , ( their price $876 before shipping charges.) That's a good chunk of change saved.

[scottnhalifax]

D - Dunlop Grandtrek
thats what we run on out uplanders over here in nova scotia...no complaints from our driver on these tires...some of the best bang for your buck...used on 4 vans

[spike88]

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In my area, I'd estimate that "internet" tire purchasing is 5 years behind USA region usage statistics. Yes. Many folks in my area are very comfortable with "internet" buying for small ticket items (like clothes, small electronics, items smaller then a bread box - LOL!) but for large size items like Tires, the majority of folks do NOT buy Tires via online shopping stores. They use "internet" for preliminary research (like user reviews, picture of tread design, tire sizing) but most of the time, the folks in my area simply "phone call the stores", and ask for verbal cost estimates. And if selling price is within reason, they may ask for a written estimate (via fax or .pdf format) as backup. In my area, buying tires over the "internet" online stores is rare. Funny thing is, many folks will phone order tires (for stores to pre-order them) and provide their VISA numbers over cordless phones. To me, that's more risky then using Internet Online stores.

Within my area, my local auto shop (that's within 4 minute walk) provided written PAPER document estiamte of:
- 17" Steel Rim / 6 bolts for '07+ Montana / Uplander - $65.00 (brand new steel)
- "Hankook Winter IPike W409 (bi-directional)" - $143 (which includes balance & install).
- Before taxes, sub total is: $208
- Add: Mandatory Tire tax of $5.85 (per tire)
- Since existing all season tires (on their own rims) are given back to me, there's NO tire disposal fee (yes, another tax).
- Add: Retail taxes (PST/GST) at 13%
- Total "real cost" = $245 "per tire".

Note: If desired, add the cost of plastic "snap-on" hub caps. Their selling prices vary - depending on selected design. If wondering, no "hub caps" for my winter tires - because it holds chunks of snow / ice behind it - which changes the balance of each tire.

The more I research, the more I'm thinking the above estimate from my local auto shop is really great price (for my region).

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[spike88]

Originally Posted by scottnhalifax

D - Dunlop Grandtrek
thats what we run on out uplanders over here in nova scotia...no complaints from our driver on these tires...some of the best bang for your buck...used on 4 vans

Thanks for this info.... Tire101 User Reviews lists this specific tire with rating of 4.2. Slightly below the Blizzak and IPike W409 tires (each with rating of 4.5 out of 5).

On a good note, my local auto shop sells this "Dunlop Grandtrek" at $179.00 with factory "mail in" rebate of $60.00. The sad part is, we'd get dinged 13% tax on its retail $179 list price. Which converts to savings of estimated $50.00 final rebate. For 4 of these tires (including adjusted rebate amount), total savings estimated at $60.00 (for total vehicle). I'll have a deeper look into this specific tire.

thanks for your suggestion of D - Dunlop Grandtrek....

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['97ventureowner]

Let me clarify the meaning of my previous post concerning using the Internet. I didn't want to come across too strongly advocating it's use as your only option.The Internet is a great tool for doing the research into something before buying and can save the customer a lot of money in the process as they can do it in the comfort of their homes , saving time from having to run around and wasting gas. One can see pictures, get detailed info, read customer reviews and the all important price quote(s). Then the customer can choose whatever they want to do with that info to make their purchase, either go online to do so, order over the phone, or go to a brick-and -mortar store. I find phoning around to do the same can be a big time waster from my experience. Many times you call a place and get someone who doesn't know anything (usually minimum wage , no experience, etc.) get put on hold for an inordinate amount of time, and even get wrong information or pricing. I realize that many people may not be comfortable purchasing larger items online, but as statistics point out that is quickly changing. I wouldn't be surprised if those that have a fear of it now will eventually find out it's fairly easy and uncomplicated. I chose to purchase my tires online this time, and the same as the past as no tire dealer in my area, and there are plenty, could not match or come close to the pricing I could get online. Reading some of the reviews for various tires on the site, that thought is shared by many of their customers, and that is a reason why they bought them online.In this day and age with the economy the way it is, stretching your dollar and increasing your purchasing power with those dollars is important.
I wish the Internet was around 20 years ago when I used to restore and rebuild cars on a larger scale and I was constantly on the phone looking for parts/info, and talking to people who had knowledge to share. The 'net has made it so much easier with sites like this where we can all come together and share info and experiences. And you can search salvage yards for parts, and look at manufacturer and other sites that sell the items you need to fix your vehicle and get info and pictures/specs on those parts.

Originally Posted by spike88

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Within my area, my local auto shop (that's within 4 minute walk) provided written PAPER document estiamte of:
- 17" Steel Rim / 6 bolts for '07+ Montana / Uplander - $65.00 (brand new steel)

Just to clarify the info above those rims you mention should also fit 2006. GM switched to a 6 lug rim in '06 in an attempt to solve the various issues the 2005 models were experiencing with their brakes.
I wonder why your steel rims are so much cheaper new than anything I can get here in the US. I searched extensively for new ones , and the ones I did see were well over $100. I called around locally and no one had any or knew where to get new ones . Perhaps they are produced in Canada, making their price so attractive? I had thought when I started looking late in '07 for rims and discovered that there were no new ones and there were very little used ones available it was attributable to the fact that the model was still fairly new ( with the intro of the 6 lug rim for these vans the year prior) and there weren't many in the salvage yards yet. Even to this day I think the inventory of used ones out there is still limited, keeping their prices higher.

[spike88]

Hi '97ventureowner.

Today, I checked my local Canadian tire store for steel rim details. Steel rim for 17" - 6 bolt Uplander/Montana rims is $71. My local GM charges $75 dollars for their Delco stamped (???) steel rim. Add 13% PST/GST taxes and "out door" price is approx $85 / tire (only for its steel rim). Well under the $100 USA price - that you're seeing in your USA regions. So far, my local auto shop (that is 4 minute walk away) is best rim price. re: $65 per rim and will do "dry fit" on all 4 wheels - to ensure it fits my fan (before mounting rubber on it).

Today, I also checked my local Canadian Tire store for winter "rubber" details. Cannot remember their exact Good Year winter rubber name but their "most popular" winter rubber (for Montana / Uplander vans) is $173. My GM dealer wanted $175 for their Good Year winter rubber. So far, my local auto shop (that's 4 minute walk away) has best "combined" rim & rubber selling prices. Especially for the highest User Review rated snow tires.

Next week, think I'll buy the tires (rims and rubber) and ask my local auto shop to store them. Thus, beat the possible "winter rubber shortage" situation - like last year.

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