Rebuild for mula

[boostjunkie333]

ok, so, i posted this in another forum, and i want to post here as well just to increase my chances...

i might be looking at having to rebuild my engine come this january(when i have a check coming to me, to buy parts and labor) and im wondering, if there is anyone with 420a rebuilding experience who might like to help me through the process...bc i dont own the nec. tools to do the job...like a hoist...or an engine stand...and various other things id need...

also id like to have someone who knows these cars backwards and forwards to lead me through the build. im willing to pay of coarse for whoevers time...and i wa sthinking id buy all the parts ahead of time of course, and try to arrange where it could be done in about a weekends time...if possible.

if anyone is interested or has any suggestions as to how i might be able to go through this process easier, please chime in

just keep in mind i dont have many of the tools i need which is the biggest problem...

[david-b]

It's really not that bad. I built mine in my kitchen. Buy a manual, and read it backwards and forwards.

[Blackcrow64]

Better start investing in some tools before parts then... Really the whole thing can be done with a socket set, wrench set, and basics like screwdrivers and hammer... The only bigger things you will need is an engine stand (Cheap) and a engine hoist. (Which can be had for a decent price)

[david-b]

Originally Posted by Blackcrow64

Better start investing in some tools before parts then... Really the whole thing can be done with a socket set, wrench set, and basics like screwdrivers and hammer... The only bigger things you will need is an engine stand (Cheap) and a engine hoist. (Which can be had for a decent price)

And don't forgot the real importants, like 2 torque wrenches (feet and inches). But most things can be found for a decent price as stated. And if you have a DSM, you should already have 2 of everything to begin with (one for in the car, one for in the tool box)

Brian... what's the hammer for out of curiousity?

[boostjunkie333]

i guess he meant a dead blow hammer...for the pistons...

but um, this is what i thought...i was pretty sure i could do it until this other posting on another forum told me that i couldnt do it good by myself, that all this stuff had to be done to make sure it was done right, and that it has to be done in a machine shop...if youll read below ill show you what he wrote...it was informative but it made me feel like according to wha he is sying if i rebuild it myself itll blow up and not perofrm well lol...

"It's not that it's a waste of time, it's that there's more to a good engine rebuild than just slapping some parts on it. There's bore measurement (egg shaped = bad, perfectly round = good), Correcting the bore shape via cylinder boring and then getting the right rings OR pistons and rings to match the new bore diameter, Reaming (Carbon lip at the top of the piston travel) that may need done, Honing (not difficult but you can still do it wrong), Polishing a crank if it's still useable or machining it down and getting the proper thickness replacement bearings because stockers will no longer be right, checking the block and head for coolant passage integrity, checking the block and head for flatness and milling/decking it back within spec.

Then you throw in the few extras that you can do to make sure it's going to yield some more umph like balancing all of the pistons and rods so that they're all equal, balancing all of those moving parts to the crankshaft so that they are then in balance with each other, and finally you can bore the cylinder walls for additional displacement and change piston design to match your power modifications (you'd want low compression pistons).

It's not like a brake job or something simple. It's gets real expensive, real quick, especially if attention to detail is not paid it's due."
Doug

[SilvrEclipse]

It depends on whats wrong with your motor to start with. Since it has been rebuilt recently you may only need to hone it out and throw in a new set of pistons and be fine. You wont know till you open it up, but its going to be a lot more than a weekend job. There is no tellin what you will find messed up in there and you may need some machine work done which can take a week by itself.

When I built the motor for my car last year I had never done any work on a motor internally before then. I just took it slow and did a lot of research. As long as you check everything out and make sure its in spec you should have no issues with the motor not running good.

[boostjunkie333]

right...im starting where you were then...

so advice is much appreciated.

but um, that kind of answers another question i had...do i only need to replace the pistons if the rods are visibly ok?

my dad has a spare car i can use, so i suppose it wouldnt matter if the clipse' was out of commission...long enough to do everything...i kinda wanna buy all the parts and take it to epic motorsports in nc, get it built and tuned all at once, but like that guy said its no good until its broken in...

but then the other side of me wants to do it myself...only i keep hearing why i shouldnt...

i just dont think i possess the experience to be able to visually inspect an engine and tell what needs working on...like some of you prob can...so i fear i would be rebuilding something when its just as bad off as the internals b4 them...

im basically forced into a corner...i need to find someone thats capable of doing a nice job on a high performance motor...

[david-b]

It's not easy. But it's not hard. Most people don't do their own mechanic work before it's intimidating. Honestly, it's not that bad. Research, read, and just get your hands dirty.

This motor is the first one I'm ever building also. It's ready to go, but took on another project of tearing down and fixing one on my Grand Am. Hell I didn't even think twice about it before doing the G.A. Granted it's not a full rebuild, but still. Just got in there and made it happen.

Any machine shop will do all the work as stated. When I got my block, I tore it down, and walked it to the shop. They bored, honed, fixed a crack, replaced freeze plugs, decked and polished crank all right there. Took about a week. When I got it back, it was ready for the build.

When ordering parts, make sure you deal with a company that knows that they're doing and that know the motor. This is when reputable shops come into play. They'll know what to use and will get you the right parts.

You do have to pay attention when doing it, but it is a motor. You don't want to rush anyways. Since you have a spare car to use, that's great. That's why I bought the G.A. So I still have something to use while the Talon is being pulled apart.

[boostjunkie333]

ok, i suppose my next question is...can you spit off some prices? average labor charges for things....like having a machine shop fix up everything for you...

[david-b]

Machine shop I picked because it was the only place that was open on Saturdays, so I ended up paying more for that, so here's some rough estimates on what I personally paid.

-Machine work (as stated above) came out to about $400. Mine was more that it should have been because the block had little fractures on the top and they drilled out, filled, and decked the block. Bore, hone, crank polish... the usuals were all included in there. Original quote (before finding the fractures) was just under $300 IIRC.

-For parts, pistons, rods, rings, bearings, Cometic HG, ARPs came to over a grand. All timing components I want to say were about the $400 mark also.

[SilvrEclipse]

I ended up pay around 300$ for my machine work. That was having the block bored 0.020, hot tanked, the crank regrinded 0.010, and had the valve seats reground on the head and had the head cleaned.

[Blackcrow64]

Dave is right. It seems intimidating to most people but once your in there and get familiar with everything it's not so bad. I remember when I started my build project. It was all I could do to barely change my oil and now look at where I am. 3 years later and I'm not afraid of doing anything on a car now. It just takes a lot of research, reading and hands on to learn it all... I wanna say my machine work for the motor was like 300-400 range also. I have a ton of money invested in my motor and it kind of sucks thinking about it now...

Dave, the hammer is for random times when you just can't get something to budge. lol

[david-b]

Originally Posted by Blackcrow64

Dave, the hammer is for random times when you just can't get something to budge. lol

I thought that's what breaker bars are for. That and the pole that comes off the 2-ton jack stand. Fit that over a wrench or a ratchet and you're in business.

I forgot about the head too. I really don't know how much I spent on my head just for machine work. That had to be another $400 or so. But I shipped it out to Rhode Island. Great work though. I think total I spent about $2000 just on the head .

[LandoAWD]

Second guessing Doug is a bad idea.

He's a mechanical wiz.

[boostjunkie333]

oh no i didnt mean to second guess him, i was really just wondering if all that he said was necessary...and, in the end, i found out, it really is...

so, if the stock head flows just fine...do i nec. NEED to do anything to it...as far as machining...(for my purposes(400hp or so goal)