A question from/to the Plastic manafucters

[DJ RUSH99]

Hello everybody!

In the days ,when I was watching the dakar rally a question occurred to me. I was looking at those huge vehicles with much pleasure,it was my first thought immediately,how there is not some published in 1/24?
Lots of beautiful cars, I feel a desire that let's build it,but isn't opportunity,because they do not exist in plastic.The arrival of the Dakar race cars is really weak in plastic kits,I can't imagine that he would not be though onto him claim.
And I cannot realize it,that for example Tamiya relased the Lexus SC-430 at 2008 and Xanavi R35.Why cannot be relase some Dakar race car?
I think in that manner interest would be that big for them,than for the lexus and the nissan.
So, the question to everybody who reads the forum,according to you why do not the plastic manufacturers relases for example Dakar race cars?Or the new WRC cars?
There is somebody who better behind the things sees,and would be able to explain it to me,to us? This thing would interest me very much!

Thank you

[SmokeyMcBear]

what is a dakar car?

[DJ RUSH99]

Originally Posted by SmokeyMcBear

what is a dakar car?

[klutz_100]

I am unsubscribing from AF altogether now!

[jaykay640]

Yeah, i wondered about that too. From waaaay back you can have a Revell Mercedes Unimog that won the Dakar truck category some time in the 80's and i think you could convert the Tamiya Peugeot 405T16 to Dakar spec....not sure how much work that would be. Tamiya also made at least two Pajeros.
Revell Germany has released a Race Touareg and recent Pajero Evo....but in 1:32.
With all those Mitsubishi wins i was wondering why Tamiya didn't make a kit from the recent years. Maybe if VW finally wins it this year revell steps in and does a 1:24:-)
Otherwise there's a nice full detail 1:43 kit of the 2006 Pajero Evo from Provence Miniatures...:-)

klutz...why's that?

[CrateCruncher]

Hi Rush,
Maybe the reason Dakar vehicles aren't well represented in plastic is because so few people know about them yet. I think one has to be exposed to and appreciate a subject before he's willing to purchase a model of it. Starting this thread is a good way to change that!

Frankly, I get frustrated seeing millions spent on tooling every year for cars/bikes that will be forgotten after the first run while the big manufacturers spend precious little on "true" classics that will continue to be perennial favorites for generations of new modelers. Can anyone remember what the '85 Yamaha Phazer or '98 Renault Clio looked like? Does anyone care? Considering the high capital cost of injection tooling and low wear rate that seems rather stupid as a business strategy. Fujimi and recently Hasegawa are starting to get that. Fujimi EM's continue to be reissued every 3 to 5 years with healthy price increases and Hasegawa is building a portfolio of classics that can be reissued periodically (like the Lamborghini Miura, Ferrari Testa Rosa etc). The tooling up front is a huge expense, reissue's cost hardly anything..

[spincarez]

I think the reason for there not being any dakar rally cars is the same as with every other racing series. It must be the licensing costs and because not many people know about them or don't want to buy that kind of models, the manufactures don't find it feasible.

[hirofkd]

In capitalism, the market trend is a credible source of understanding what's going on. The model car market doesn't allow the manufacturers to release Dakar rally cars, but there are many Japanese Super GT racers. So, it's safe to conclude that Super GT cars are more popular than Dakar rally cars.

[rallymaster]

Hello all,

I'm a fan of Dakar since the early races and years as far as I can remember discovering and wathcing them on TV when I was young.
I've been part of a 1/43 Dakar collector association (which some members business mentality highly disappointed me that's why I left)
And even if I'm selling most of the dakar models I've been collecting for years (due to the several thousand of models I have to buyild) I dare pretend I know the subject.

Originally Posted by jaykay640

i think you could convert the Tamiya Peugeot 405T16 to Dakar spec....

well, how to say that... the tamiya 405 T16 actually IS the dakar spec

Originally Posted by jaykay640

Tamiya also made at least two Pajeros

uhh... which ones ?
I only see the 92 winner from tamiya...



There's one thing to know about dakar release:
It's the profitability of the models and molds !
dakar cars would be "one livery" models for most of them (except some works team that somtimes run several years with the same livery, if they don't have any evolution...) when Tamiya and others can make several different track cars with the nissan or lexus mold through the years.
I'm wondering if tmiya last choices aren't a consequence of that (for example the false 206 evo3 because no new mold or even a new parts tree addition but a simple piece to fill a hood hole and a wrong rear wing... )
(off topic: that makes me think I still have to find time to take pics of the Renaissance TK - this weekend for sure if I can't before )
Another close argue according to me is the fact that except some works team, who knows enough cars and would buy enough models, especially if private cars almost completely unknown...?
Which member here could give 10 cars of this year event which aren't works team ? the media cover of the race mostly shows works team... So people mostly know them.
moreover when WRC is universaly known (even if I can't think japan touring is ) Dakar is almost unknown and ignored and far more in modelling, so it's probably hard to measure any potential or interest for manufacterers.
And finally I'm wondering if it would be a good choice because I'm affraid Dakar cars are bigger (nothing but tyres for example !?) and would need more material (plastic decals etc) and then would have a higher producing cost and so selling price...? I don't know but that may be a reason also because Tamiya recently have shown some strange choices in this sens (metal underbody, half engine detailing etc).
Even if I mostly think Tamiya is now simply completely ignoring any forms of rally...

I would appreciate a Touareg or a Pajero Evo from tamiya...
I can't dare to dream of private cars or any Dakar trucks... would it be possible to get sales success with...? not sure...
it's almost a dream to find any Dakar models when even WRC models are now forgotten...
Dakar is not a theme for industrial items... it's already hard to find customer for craftmanship brands...
Even if some people would really enjoy building one of them maybe not enough would buy one.
wouldn't it be the main reason ?

Esci was the only brand releasing several models (mercedes 450 slc, mercedes 280G, range rover VSD... even the ford transit ) revell made the Unimog, tamiya the two 405 T16 and the 92 pajero winner, Gunze made the Porsche 959...
What else ? I don't know any other brand having release a Dakar models in 1/24 scale.

Some new release of these items ave appeared under revell brand but a Tamiya kit would really be nice !

[rallymaster]

Originally Posted by hirofkd

In capitalism, the market trend is a credible source of understanding what's going on. The model car market doesn't allow the manufacturers to release Dakar rally cars, but there are many Japanese Super GT racers. So, it's safe to conclude that Super GT cars are more popular than Dakar rally cars.

where ? in Japan maybe !
not in Europe

Dakar is a bit like Le Mans, a famous race if not the most famous...
But the subject isn't interesting brands... That's not logical...
(even if the expensive licenses prices argue would be true then)

Another argue I didn't mention above:
Dakar is a 2/3 weeks event, WRC or GT or F1 etc are a whole season (if not year) running event !
So interest isn't the same for brands which may think they will sell less...

very disappoiting but I think seeing Dakar models is only a dream...
Just only take a look at what Tamiya release these last years...

[jaykay640]

Seems i have to correct myself.....there's only the '92 Pajero from Tamiya. The other i saw was a conversion from a street Pajero kit.

About the 405.....oooops :-) I shouldn't write about stuff i don't really know :-)
And i completely forgot about the Gunze 959......i even built that one as a kid!

[DJ RUSH99]

Thank you for the comments!

Rallymaster for you though particularly!

Onto some you managed to make the thing clearer for me, yet if distressing
It was a surprising fact for me,that the dakar than "notion" on much place unknown! I would not have believed this.
It really logician,that GT and it F1 competitions trendier than for example the dakar,but there would be a customer layer ,who would to buy Dakar cars. And it's unfair,that cca. 80% they are relase for Japanese cars,starts being boring already slowly!
And it,that they get out of the same competition series generally the tamiya given out race cars. Tamiya WRC supply was beautiful once,more of his evolution was issued to some cars from a year onto a year ( Peugeot 206,Mitsubishi Lancer,etc),and it was possible to build a beautiful collection in this manner. Today already uncharacteristic this,because they stood on a guideline, the Japanese touring cars,and there is not something else quasi. It would be the correct one,if a little bit relase from Japanese cars,and a small one from WRC,Dakar,etc

...and I do not dare to mention the European street cars already then

And would not carry much bigger costs according to me ,or much more would not be need to make a dakar race a car,than etc Peugeot 205 and 405 . They are complete cars,with a lots of parts, but Tamiya managed to publish it after all,and many people bought it,indeed until the today's day saleable pieces,a re-relase would be deserved likewise!
Or this Pajero for example a plain piece,Tamiya published it after all













a real one looks in this manner who

[rallymaster]

You're welcome buddy !
If my opinion could bring something positive...


By reading what you added above I realize I should precise two things...

When I was talking about knowing the Dakar I didn't really want to talk about knowing what is the dakar or not knowing anything about it but I wanted to talk about interest given to this event.
common people know this is a race car in Africa (till now it was) but don't really know or refuse to see what it really is (dakar has always been criticised here in France because it was launched by French people probably) also not only a race but a meet with a continent, Africa, People, Africans, and some parts of the most beautifull nature on earth...
Dakar has always been for many people in France a race for criminals inside all terrain vehicules or trucks or crazy men on motorcycles or more than everything for stars wanted to be there (in the 80's many singers or actors raced the dakar) but refused to see there could be a real passion for car racing and a real passion and meeting with Africa and Africans through this race (especially when Claude Brasseur won the Dakar and Daniel Balavoine died by trying to bring some help to Africans...)

Another thing is about the manufactering costs.
I'm not sure it would be more expensive to produce a dakar model (which isn't inevitably more detailed and could be a curbside model) except if it's a truck even if detailed models as the Pajero or the 405 T16 are old models manufactered 10 or 15 years ago and nowadays such models can be more expensive to produce... (would need a real examination of manufactering costs I suppose...)
But the main thing I wanted to say through this idea is the fact that Tamiya seems not to want to produce such models anymore...
Whar is the last full detailed model from Tamiya ? isn't it precisely the 405 or the pajero ?
for example the 307 lost every chassis details and the new GT-R has an uncomplete engine molded (knowing this model is an exception because all WRC had only bottom engine molded)...


Nevertheless if tamiya would release a Dakar model no need to make a full detailed model, a curbside Touareg or Pajero, or BMW with a minimum of details making interest of dakar models (suspensions etc) would satyisfy me !

[hirofkd]

Originally Posted by rallymaster

where ? in Japan maybe !
not in Europe

Hahaha, so true. Well, how about this?

Neoplan Cityliner > Dakar racer

That should be valid in Europe, right?

Originally Posted by rallymaster

You're welcome buddy !
But the main thing I wanted to say through this idea is the fact that Tamiya seems not to want to produce such models anymore...
Whar is the last full detailed model from Tamiya ? isn't it precisely the 405 or the pajero ?
for example the 307 lost every chassis details and the new GT-R has an uncomplete engine molded (knowing this model is an exception because all WRC had only bottom engine molded)...

A few years ago,　it was reported that Tamiya was going to re-focus its core business while taking additional investments. That means the decisions are made by a bunch of bankers. Last May, the long-time F1 aficionado Shunsaku-san stepped down, and the company is led by his son-in-law, who is...wait for it...a banker! So, there will be no unprofitable products, like plastic model cars, even though it's been one of the company's strong identifying symbols.

If you carefully look at the examples you mentioned, you can tell that those kits weren't designed by someone who did a series of classic sports cars or the Enzo, because gearheads know which details should be retained to please enthusiasts, while which can be omitted without upsetting car modelers. This kind of alignment between the designer and consumer is lacking in recent Tamiya kits, which is really sad.

I personally don't think Tamiya will return to the plastic model business. Rather I have a strong hope for the other players, especially the reborn Fujimi. Hasegawa is also known as a rally-friendly company with international distribution network.

But ultimately they are still Japanese companies, and in today's exchange rate, their kits will be way too expensive outside Japan, so they can't expect much sales, which results in fewer (if not zero) European subjects. I think European subjects should be handled by European companies, like Revell Germany and Italeri.

[BVC500]

Always enjoy your inside info, Hiro, even if its bad news (which is better than no news at all).