Trans output seal help

[Edgecrusher]

So I attempted to replace the seal for the driveaxles on my 97 with the 2.4L 4spd auto. When I was trying to remove the drivers' side I messed up bigtime. The driver side has a metal sleeve that goes thru the center of the seal and I imagine covers the shaft and splines. the rim of this sleeve has a rubber lip. Well I was thinking this was all part of one seal so I started prying on the inside of this sleeve and tore it all to heck and ripped off half the rubber lip before I noticed the seal around it which came right out.

The sleeve doesn't look good on the outer 1/4 inch that sticks out of the seal. I figured maybe the seal would seal where it mates in further, but unfortunately it leaks something terrible now.

What I need to know is if that sleeve can be replaced or if the tranny needs to be taken apart?

I noticed on the inside there is a circlip in the shaft but I don't know how this would be reached. I've never had the tranny out so I don't know if that side comes off like a cover along with the output hole so I could get at the sleeve.

This seems like a minor thing to have to scrap a tranny for so I'm hoping some kind soul will take the time to run it thru with me. I'm not sure what tranny it is exactly but I have some clues. Both side seals were large and identacle. The pan has 12 bolts I believe.

Please help!

[kirkwood158]

both sides are the same that being said the shafts on both sides are removable . I hope I understand problem....... the shafts will come out and insert into the drive axle it self use vise grips and knock out(don't damage splines). I have heard to do one side at a time so some part of interior tranny does not drop down but I had no trouble with mine.
I did have trouble getting seals as A.Z. and Advance did not carry the 4t40E 4-speed auto seals.. they said they were for my tranny but not
I did have to beat the seals up pretty good to get them out try to save as much of the seal as possable for numeric I.D.
FYI... A groove on old shaft could cause bad seal even with new seal installed

[Edgecrusher]

I believe we have the same tranny from the sound of it.
On the passenger side the splined shaft is on the drive axle and inserts into the tranny. But on the driver side the splined shaft was in the tranny when I popped the driveshaft off.
Are you saying I can take that shaft out of the driver side by pulling it with a vise-grips? And if I do that will I be able to take that cylindrical sleeve out to replace it? I really don't want to drop the tranny if I don't have to, but I think I do see that there are bolts around that side incase I have to pull that side off to get at the sleeve.

This is a pic of the sleeve I'm talking about. Notice there is rubber missing from half of it and it's beat up a bit. When I installed the new seal I put electrical tape over the edge of the sleeve and greased it up so it wounldnt damage the seal. Still I think the sleeve is just out of round enough to not seal adequately.
BTW thanks for the response!

[Edgecrusher]

Update!
I called my pontiac dealer and asked about it. He pulled a factory replacement seal and he said it had a seal, a cylinder he thought I might be talking about, and a couple e- clips which I can see one on the splined shaft. I'm gonna go and take a look tomorrow morning and see if it's what I need. Man I hope it is. Only thing left to figure out is if I can pull that shaft out.

[Classicrocjunkie]

The whole seal should go all the way out to that green outer circle ring.

Btw, a seal puller is like $10. They are Great tools to have around the shop.

[Edgecrusher]

That's not all one seal my friend. And as for the puller. how do you think I did all that damage? hehe

At this point I just have to know if I can get that sleeve out without dropping the trans.

[kirkwood158]

yes you can and I did it on my 97 cavi 2.4 with the 4T40E trans. the shaft will pull out and make changing the seal eaisier . You can then install shaft in drive axle and install as one unit after seal replacement. with the keeper rings and all.......great pic's

[Edgecrusher]

OK, cool. I just picked up the parts and he also gave me a schematic. It looked like there was a long shaft that went all the way across the tranny? Hopefully this isn't the same one. I tried just a little to pull on the shaft last nite with a vise grips with electrical tape over the jaws but it didn't seem to wanna give. I'm gonna have to get one with a slide hammer or something to get enough of a smack on it. Also it looks like that sleeve has a clip inside at the bottom. Gonna have to find something to finagle that out too. Could be a problem I think. Maybe not. I just hope I dont hurt that shaft tryin to get it out.

Thanks again Kirkwood for all your help.

[Classicrocjunkie]

You can't get a flat head screw driver in there with a hammer? Try punching it in on one side only and it should cause the other side of the seal to buckle out and then yank on that portion with a heavy duty set of pliars.

[Classicrocjunkie]

Originally Posted by Edgecrusher

OK, cool. I just picked up the parts and he also gave me a schematic. It looked like there was a long shaft that went all the way across the tranny? Hopefully this isn't the same one. I tried just a little to pull on the shaft last nite with a vise grips with electrical tape over the jaws but it didn't seem to wanna give. I'm gonna have to get one with a slide hammer or something to get enough of a smack on it. Also it looks like that sleeve has a clip inside at the bottom. Gonna have to find something to finagle that out too. Could be a problem I think. Maybe not. I just hope I dont hurt that shaft tryin to get it out.

Thanks again Kirkwood for all your help.

I wouldn't try pulling that shaft out. Its the output shaft and its locked into the diff which is all the way on the passenger side of the tranny with one of those stupid locking internal clips. You have a good chance of screwing up the splines trying to get leverage. And you cannot go through the passenger side either to try and tap against it because the differential pinion shaft is in the way once you pull the passenger side drive shaft out with the male extension on it. GM uses a Kent moore J23129 seal puller which is thin and reaches in behind the seal to yank it out.

Originally Posted by General motors

Tool Number: J-23129
Price (USD): 88.13
Tool Name: Axle Seal Remover
Description: J-23129 is required to remove the output shaft seal during on-car service due to a clearance issue between the output shaft and seal with the output shaft housing installed on the transmission.
Applications: 4t40e,4t45e,4L60; AT 3L30H2,Medium Duty Truck,

GM service manuals kick ass to own.

[kirkwood158]

well I have to trust CRJ for his insightful knowledge , although I did pull the shaft out just to see if it would and I had no problems. after thats said see my sig. I hope I have not fucked your world up if what CRJ said is true but both drive shafts are same on my car and the shafts should pull out and even swap from driver to passenger if I am not mistaken. I bought a new drive axle and it did not mater what side it was for same part for both sides and I am pretty sure I pulled both and the splined drive that stayed in like I said just to see. I pulled it out ,stuck it in drive axle and all is good .I did all this during a rebuiled. 1,800 miles so far

warning: I could be wrong after thought just maybe it was the pass side I had to pull..... danm it just dont know any more ...last post on this site sorry if I have miss lead anyone

[Classicrocjunkie]

Originally Posted by kirkwood158

well I have to trust CRJ for his insightful knowledge , although I did pull the shaft out just to see if it would and I had no problems. after thats said see my sig. I hope I have not fucked your world up if what CRJ said is true but both drive shafts are same on my car and the shafts should pull out and even swap from driver to passenger if I am not mistaken. I bought a new drive axle and it did not mater what side it was for same part for both sides and I am pretty sure I pulled both and the splined drive that stayed in like I said just to see. I pulled it out ,stuck it in drive axle and all is good .I did all this during a rebuiled. 1,800 miles so far

warning: I could be wrong after thought just maybe it was the pass side I had to pull..... danm it just dont know any more ...last post on this site sorry if I have miss lead anyone

No your partially right. The drive shafts are identical per side, but on the passenger Left side, there is a male "extension" mind you which often comes out when you pull the drive shafts.

When I yanked my eco swap motor and trans I was very confused and then aware of this because on my 2.2 OHV 4t40e, my passenger side had this male portion still attached. Look at the picture below and see the drive shaft with the male end attached.



and when I yanked my eco Cv's from the 4t40e with a pry bar I got this...



I was very confused when I knew the trannys were identical minus the bellhousing. I then invested in this..



Re-installed the cv shaft on the passenger side, then popped it once with this and got that male extension out.

So you'll have one shaft with the male end above for the passenger side, and then one of the twins in the other picture with a female end ( drive side).

On the F23 Getrag which I have now, any generic seal puller will work as there are no shafts in the way.

Getrag > 4t40e

[Edgecrusher]

OK CRJ. Your making sense to me now. I'm not having a problem getting the outer seal out on the driverside, it's that inner dust sleeve on the shaft. And thanks for clearing up the shaft confusion. I understand what Kirkwood was thinking but I think he had the driver and passenger side confused in his memory from the looks of my schematic and what you said. No harm Kirkwood. you're just trying to help.
So I need one of those little sleeve seal pullers? Isn't it also held in with a clip? I hate clips! LOL I've gone thru so many circlip pliers it's rediculous.

I'm kinda wondering why in the OEM seal kit they incude two ring clips?. Kinda like they expect you to remove that shaft?

I guess I'll quit pulling the tranny and see what I can do with getting that tool. Possibly, I'll just have to take it in for service and let them F with it? It's only a seal and I'm tired of messing with it. Labor can't be too bad if they don't have to pull the tranny. Ugh!

[Edgecrusher]

Ah, after looking at that axle seal puller I'd say It's for the outer not the inner spline dust cover. darn it.

[Classicrocjunkie]

that should be the whole seal.