Head gasket question

[Thor06]

Hey guys, I have a bit of a problem. The tranny is coming out so I can do the clutch/flywheel and while its down I am going to put the cams and ARP head studs in my Talon.

My plan to get the headstuds in was to just loosen up them all to like 15-20 ft-lbs or a half turn or whatever and switch them out one by one, then retorque leaving the stock gasket in. Well, as I was sorting through my shit today I happened to find my old Mitsu MLS head gasket. It still looked to be in good shape, after all it only had a few minutes of idling and like 6 ft before I bent the valves again. I didnt put it back in because it didnt seal as well, but I figured that was because it hadnt had enough time to.

I seem to remember Kevin running stocker HG's to quite some amount of boost, and I remember that knock eats head gaskets before cylinder pressure will. I plan to run two boost settings on the 16g, I think like 18-20 low and 24-26 high, and once I get the 50 trim maybe I will up it to 20 and 30. Also, the posibility of nitrous is always there, depending on price. I would like to go direct port on that, but I dont want to run much so I am going to stick to a wet shot, probably a 35 at first then a 50. Its pretty unlikely that I would run both the nitrous and the 50 trim at the same time due to money constraints and the fact that I would be a little worried about my motor, but one or the other should come my way this summer hopefully.

The one problem with the MLS is the black sealing stuff that surrounds the cylinders and oil/coolant flowing places. Its all fine and still there, but there is a scratch on that black junk right between cylinders 3 and 4 on the bottom side. It doesnt go completely through the black stuff, but it makes it like 2/3 of the way through.

So what should I do? Do you guys think I should just throw the MLS bad boy in there while I'm at it, or should I just overtorque the stocker a tick and pray? Do you think that bad spot on the MLS will be a problem? If you guys think that spot will be ok then I think I am going to try it, I think I'd like the peace of mind associated with it, but I would hate to have to pull that fucking head again. Help!

[tfoti]

I wouldn't take any chances with it. I read about the success Kevin had with the stock HG and so that's what I decided to put in with some ARP's. I still am only running 11 psi on the stock turbo but I feel confident it will take what I plan to put it up to with the 50 trim.

[kjewer1]

A new stock gasket is cheap, I would always recomend installing a new one for that reason. If you want to experiment with the MLS I'm all for it as long as you post results. Stock gaskets held up to 35 psi with good timing when installed properly. The last part is key, and why I hate the thought of the one by one head stud method. The info should still be up on my site if you want it.

[Thor06]

Awesome, thanks guys. I'd for sure rather use the stocker, I picked up 10 psi compression per cylinder when I switched the first time.

I dont know if I was entirely clear on my "one stud" deal, so I'll re-explain. I had planned on loosening them all up to a lower torque so there was still pressure on the gasket and it would stay sealed, but the head wouldnt warp once one stud got removed. I would replace the first bolt in the retorque sequence with the ARP stud, then torque the nut down to the torque value of the rest. I would continue to do this in the retorque pattern until all were ARP's, then I would just follow the proper torquing process until they were all at the right torque.

So will that work? I had asked a couple of other guys and they said it would, but I value you guys' opinion a solid amount more than theirs. I'd like to do it this way as I wouldnt have to get a new HG (the one on there has like 15k on it) but its so much easier and less messy.

I did read your ARP article on the site, good info Kevin.

[kjewer1]

My biggest concern is tapping and cleaning the threads so the studs have a chance to do their job, not the torque sequence. I lost more HGs to installation error/laziness than anything else...

Give it a shot, there's no harm in it if you catch a blown HG soon (keep an eye on the coolant overflow). You can always pull the head later and do it "right."

[Thor06]

Are the studs actually turning during tightening though? Since they are just finger tight in the block I was always under the assumption that they just say finger tight in the block while the actual clamping load is applied by the nuts on the tops of the studs. Oh, should the moly lube be applied to the threads on the stud going into the block and the part of the stud that the nut goes on? Should I be worried about that shit in the oil?

I guess I'll just do like you say, do it and watch it closely.

[kjewer1]

The problem is the threads need to be clean and cut right, otherwise what was finger tight at finger tight may not be finger tight at full clamping load. One little grain of rust gets pulverized or a bollixed thread gets displaced and suddenly the stud is loose... I believe I install the bottom half dry, but I might put a light coat on it, not sure why I can't remember. Use plenty on top and don't forget the bottom of the nut and both sides of the washer. Don't worry about it getting in the oil, it doesn't even come off. Not a problem either way.

[Thor06]

Good news! I pulled the VC today while I was working on the car and there's already ARP's in it. Score one for Thor! I still get to fuck with the timing because there wasnt magically a set of 272's in there, but atleast I dont have to worry about the head bolts anymore.

[Drive-Maniac]

talking about the head gaskets...do you guys think that the "Topline" gasket which I have in the gasket set, can hold as much as the OEM Mitsu gasket?