96 Windstar

[sreilly77]

Hey. I am from the Lincoln/Jeep forum but I have a pretty serious problem with my friend's 96 Windstar with 130,000 miles. When I start the car, it idles very rough, the engine rattles really bad, and it is billowing GRAY smoke. It smokes so bad that it seems like I just Seafoamed the engine. The smoke DOES NOT smell like anti-freeze, but it smells like burning carbon. I checked all the hoses and ran a Code Scanner on the van and it says that both banks for the O2 sensors are running too LEAN. I can't even drive the thing because the gray smoke is so heavy it's ridiculous. It seems to have power, but when I come to a stop or sitting in park, the engine idles really rough. I can't figure out what is going on here and I could really use the help! Thanks!

[mundy5]

are those codes p0171/p0174? If you look at the 1st post at the very top, you'll see the solution for it.

[sreilly77]

Originally Posted by mundy5

are those codes p0171/p0174? If you look at the 1st post at the very top, you'll see the solution for it.

Yes, they are the codes. Thank you very much. But, my other question is why is the engine making a loud, rattling/clanking noise then? Does this have to do with the problem I am having also?

[wiswind]

The 1995-1998 are NOT included in the TSB for the 1999 and newer isolator bolt issue.
Totally different upper intake manifold.

Does the vehicle need to have coolant added to the system (internal leaks possible)?

I would try disconnecting, and plugging the vaccum line that goes to the top of the EGR valve......as a TEMPORARY test to see if it changes the problem.
Also.....connecting a vaccum line to the EGR valve vaccum connection and sucking on it.....to see if you can hear the EGR valve click open and closed.
The EGR valve does NOT have a history of failing on the windstar......although a grain of carbon getting onto the seat in the valve could happen.

I would also SUPER thoroughly check ALL the vaccum lines that you can find for damage......pay particluar attention to the vaccum line that goes from the TOP of the upper intake manifold ......to the PCV valve in the rear valve cover.
The 90 degree elbow on the top of the upper intake manifold is known to crack on the inside of the bend.

Also check to see if your air controls work......defrost....floor....vent.....if not...that could be the source of a vaccum leak.
Also make sure that your Rear heat/AC unit works.....if you have one.

Check the crankcase breather line that goes from the front valve cover......and connects to the back side of the big flex tube that goes from the throttle body to the MAF/Air filter box.

Are the codes that you list the ONLY codes that you get......No P0301 - P0306?

One could also try cleaning the MAF.....using NON-residue ELECTRONIC (not electrical) cleaner......
Spray into the MAF so that the fluid goes into the hole at one end of the cross bar.....and runs out the hole at the other end of the cross bar......on the back side of it....as you look DOWN into the MAF.
A link to a picture that shows the MAF.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1350...11220610bXQOkA
__________________
1996 3.8L Windstar
Link to my pictures, intended as an aid, not a replacement for, a good repair manual. http://community.webshots.com/album/201931518cScpNK

[kvn4]

What I would do is remove and clean the egr just to satisfy one of the posiblitys . Seems to me it has carbon making it stick allowing more fuel to pass. Just my thought for peaceof mind. good luck

[sreilly77]

Originally Posted by wiswind

The 1995-1998 are NOT included in the TSB for the 1999 and newer isolator bolt issue.
Totally different upper intake manifold.

Does the vehicle need to have coolant added to the system (internal leaks possible)?

I would try disconnecting, and plugging the vaccum line that goes to the top of the EGR valve......as a TEMPORARY test to see if it changes the problem.
Also.....connecting a vaccum line to the EGR valve vaccum connection and sucking on it.....to see if you can hear the EGR valve click open and closed.
The EGR valve does NOT have a history of failing on the windstar......although a grain of carbon getting onto the seat in the valve could happen.

I would also SUPER thoroughly check ALL the vaccum lines that you can find for damage......pay particluar attention to the vaccum line that goes from the TOP of the upper intake manifold ......to the PCV valve in the rear valve cover.
The 90 degree elbow on the top of the upper intake manifold is known to crack on the inside of the bend.

Also check to see if your air controls work......defrost....floor....vent.....if not...that could be the source of a vaccum leak.
Also make sure that your Rear heat/AC unit works.....if you have one.

Check the crankcase breather line that goes from the front valve cover......and connects to the back side of the big flex tube that goes from the throttle body to the MAF/Air filter box.

Are the codes that you list the ONLY codes that you get......No P0301 - P0306?

One could also try cleaning the MAF.....using NON-residue ELECTRONIC (not electrical) cleaner......
Spray into the MAF so that the fluid goes into the hole at one end of the cross bar.....and runs out the hole at the other end of the cross bar......on the back side of it....as you look DOWN into the MAF.
A link to a picture that shows the MAF.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1350...11220610bXQOkA
__________________
1996 3.8L Windstar
Link to my pictures, intended as an aid, not a replacement for, a good repair manual. http://community.webshots.com/album/201931518cScpNK

I asked my friend who owns the Windstar if he adds coolant frequently. He says the only time he did was when he replaced the radiator over a year ago. Other that that, he told me that the coolant level stays relatively the same. I also check the fumes from the exhaust to see if there was any signs of a sweet coolant smell and the only smell that it is emitting is heavy carbon.

I will check the things you listed above, especially the EGR. I did find a broken hose that was supposed to go into the rear PCV valve, but to my surprise, THERE WAS NO VALVE! It was completely gone. So I replaced it with a new EGR valve and a new hose. The car runs somewhat better but is still dumping a lot of fuel into the engine and smoking like crazy. So let me check everything you told me to and I'll get back to you.

My biggest worry is why is the engine making a rattling/clanking noise when I get it started? Is that from extreme carbon build up?

[sreilly77]

Originally Posted by sreilly77

I asked my friend who owns the Windstar if he adds coolant frequently. He says the only time he did was when he replaced the radiator over a year ago. Other that that, he told me that the coolant level stays relatively the same. I also check the fumes from the exhaust to see if there was any signs of a sweet coolant smell and the only smell that it is emitting is heavy carbon.

I will check the things you listed above, especially the EGR. I did find a broken hose that was supposed to go into the rear PCV valve, but to my surprise, THERE WAS NO VALVE! It was completely gone. So I replaced it with a new EGR valve and a new hose. The car runs somewhat better but is still dumping a lot of fuel into the engine and smoking like crazy. So let me check everything you told me to and I'll get back to you.

My biggest worry is why is the engine making a rattling/clanking noise when I get it started? Is that from extreme carbon build up?

Ok this is what I've done so far. I did a thorough check on all the hoses and they are all good. When I hook up the direct vacuum line to the EGR, it opens up. Then I moved to the MAF sensor. Inside the air cleaner hose was loaded with motor oil and the throttle body was coated in oil as well. I am about to clean the MAF sensor right now. However, where is all this oil build up coming from? This HAS to be the problem.

[wiswind]

Sadly.....I got the same thing.....
If you look in my pictures....that the link in my signature takes you to.....I have a Greddy Catch can installed.....for just this reason.
The location that the PCV line enters the upper intake manifold is such that some of the oil that condenses from the oil vapors drawn in through the PCV valve.....can run out the throttle body....and into the flex line.
I believe that this happens when the motor is shut down.

I would clean the oil up....and use the non-residue electronic cleaner to clean the MAF and the input air temperature sensor....which is located in the flex tube that you are cleaning.

Was any work performed on the vehicle lately......not uncommon for a couple of spark plug wires to get crossed......SUPER easy to do.

Other than that.....routine service items like new fuel filter, fuel system cleaner (Berryman's B-12 Chemtool in the metal can), spark plug wires, and possible coil pack....although one would expect a misfire code for the coil pack / plug wires.....
I am wondering about a seriously dirty fuel injector, or a vaccum leak......that would cause the PCM to be trying to compensate......

I would also give the many vaccum line connections on the back side of the upper intake manifold a real good checking out.

Also.....check into the IMRC operation.
The IMRC will be OPEN with the motor NOT running....held open by springs...and they will close when you start the engine....held closed by vaccum from the engine.
IF they do not close.......then you will need to fix that.
Look for a vaccum line not connected......
Otherwise.....you may be looking at a new IMRC actuator....

To test to see which actuator is bad (one leaking actuator can rob the other of the vaccum needed to run.)
Remove the vaccum line to one of the actuators and place your finger over then end of it (vaccum line)......when you place your finger over the end, the actuator that is still connected should close.
If it does not, then it is likely defective....(providing that you can feel vaccum in the line that you put your finger over).
If it does close....then the one that you have disconnected is likely defective....
HOWEVER.....I would reconnect the actuator.....and disconnect the vaccum line to the other actuator....and repeat the test.
A link to a photograph that shows a close up view of the IMRC.....in the OPEN position.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2818...11220610NJerWA

If the IMRC system is not operating....you 'should' get a code for this.

[sreilly77]

Originally Posted by wiswind

Sadly.....I got the same thing.....
If you look in my pictures....that the link in my signature takes you to.....I have a Greddy Catch can installed.....for just this reason.
The location that the PCV line enters the upper intake manifold is such that some of the oil that condenses from the oil vapors drawn in through the PCV valve.....can run out the throttle body....and into the flex line.
I believe that this happens when the motor is shut down.

I would clean the oil up....and use the non-residue electronic cleaner to clean the MAF and the input air temperature sensor....which is located in the flex tube that you are cleaning.

Was any work performed on the vehicle lately......not uncommon for a couple of spark plug wires to get crossed......SUPER easy to do.

Other than that.....routine service items like new fuel filter, fuel system cleaner (Berryman's B-12 Chemtool in the metal can), spark plug wires, and possible coil pack....although one would expect a misfire code for the coil pack / plug wires.....
I am wondering about a seriously dirty fuel injector, or a vaccum leak......that would cause the PCM to be trying to compensate......

I would also give the many vaccum line connections on the back side of the upper intake manifold a real good checking out.

Also.....check into the IMRC operation.
The IMRC will be OPEN with the motor NOT running....held open by springs...and they will close when you start the engine....held closed by vaccum from the engine.
IF they do not close.......then you will need to fix that.
Look for a vaccum line not connected......
Otherwise.....you may be looking at a new IMRC actuator....

To test to see which actuator is bad (one leaking actuator can rob the other of the vaccum needed to run.)
Remove the vaccum line to one of the actuators and place your finger over then end of it (vaccum line)......when you place your finger over the end, the actuator that is still connected should close.
If it does not, then it is likely defective....(providing that you can feel vaccum in the line that you put your finger over).
If it does close....then the one that you have disconnected is likely defective....
HOWEVER.....I would reconnect the actuator.....and disconnect the vaccum line to the other actuator....and repeat the test.
A link to a photograph that shows a close up view of the IMRC.....in the OPEN position.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2818...11220610NJerWA

If the IMRC system is not operating....you 'should' get a code for this.

Ok. Well I took out the MAF sensor and cleaned it up nicely. It didn't look that bad to begin with so I think it is fine.

I cleaned out the oil in the flex tube also.

Tomorrow I'm going to jack the car up to get a good view of the back of the motor and check everything. I doubt that the spark plug wires are crossed because my buddy said the van started to act up on the highway. But I will still check them anyway.

These IMRC actuators, is it possible that this could be my rattling noise when I start the van? The noise is coming from behind the engine. I'm really curious now. Could one or both of the actuators also be the reason that the engine is getting dumped so much fuel? Because I disconnected the relay for the fuel pump and the engine stayed running for about 2 minutes.

By the way, I did replace the fuel filter today too. The old one wasn't that bad but I still replaced it as a precaution and since they are fairly cheap and easy to do. I have a good feeling that one of the IMRC actuators may be the problem. I'll let you know how I make out tomorrow. Thanks for all your help so far I really appreciate it!

Oh and one more note, I haven't gotten any new codes...still the same ones.

[wiswind]

Rattles that I have gotten...all related to the exhaust.....heat shields on catalytic converters, 1 broken ceramic internals of a catalytic converter, and the flex pipe.....located just to the rear of the point where the "Y" pipe comes together.

I also had a rattle from the metal plate being loose.....between the motor and the transmission.

My new "Y" pipe rattles also.....I just put up with it.