Very hard cold starting

[quincyguy]

Right after bragging on my '94 to ufatbasted! I went out tonight in 15 degree weather and the ol' Camry made a God awful sound like it wasn't meshing
with the flywheel. It finally 'caught', skipped for a bit like it was hitting on three, and then it ran perfectly !
It happened once or twice last winter and I shrugged it off, but Winter's back and my wife's now afraid to trust it.
Anyone got thoughts on this?
Starts beautifully when it's warmed up; timing, maybe? I pray.....?

[RIP]

Change the starter or solenoid contacts for the "meshing" problem. Your "hitting on three" problem could be fuel or spark related. To start with I would change the spark plugs if they have 30k miles or more on them. Maybe the plug wires too. Throw a can of fuel conditioner in to get the moisture out of the gas and/or injector cleaner. If the car has plenty of power getting up hills I wouldn't suspect "timing". You can always check your timing settings with a timing light. Should be 10deg BTDC on the 4 cyl engine. The procedures are in your factory maintenance manual found in the "Camry Service Manuals" thread at the top of the forum.

[Brian R.]

Also, have your battery checked

[quincyguy]

Thank you, guys.
It's the flywheel, according to the Toyota guy who's been servicing it.
Not unheard of in Toyotas with 200k or better on them, and the reason it wasn't 'meshing' in nasty cold weather is that the gears shrink just that wee bit to cause it. The starter is 6 months old.
He suggested I switch the key to full 'on' without starting the engine, then put the brake down and run the shift lever back and forth through all the positions a few times to loosen it up, which worked this morning (21 deg. F). Failing this,
he could file back the flange on the starter a wee bit to close up the gap a tad.
If it skips and slips again, I'll have 'em do it. The alternative is the bone yard.
To R&R a flywheel on this car would be crazy. Can't kick. I bought it for 6000 bucks with 95K on it in 01. My wife is right. There are cars everywhere, and dealers are really dealing to stay open right now.
Thanks again.

[RIP]

Well...uh...so if that were the case then every flywheel should shrink on 94 Camrys and create starting issues in cold weather. Sounds a bit shakey. IMHO the biggest variable there is the starter not the flywheel. Much more to go wrong...6 months old or 2 days old.

If your procedures keep working, more power to you. Another thing to try is just tap the ignition switch to "start" a couple times before starting. This will wake and warm up the starter tad before you actually go for a start. As Brian R said make sure the battery stays up to speed. You can loose up to 40% of it's power in cold weather. That 40% loss could be just enough to keep the starter gear from meshing correctly. If nothing works at some point try heating the starter with an old hair dryer or just tapping it with a hammer.

[quincyguy]

The techs premise is that this car has been a city-street beast for all it's running life, in probably the crummiest 4-season environment - Boston.
Start, stop, start, stop, etc. school, market, downtown, double-park, for 13 years. So I'd have to agree the flywheel took a major beating over time and is on its third starter, to boot.
What do you think about filing the flange to get a snugger fit into the flywheel

[Brian R.]

Most likely your starter is sticking and not extending the pinion shaft fully or engaging the starter motor prematurely. Your drive plate (flywheel if you have a manual transmission) is not the problem. Do not change the distance between the starter and the drive plate with a shim or any other way.

My bet is that you need a new starter or you have a bad cable connection. Also, there is a large difference in quality between a $50 starter and a $200 starter.

[Luvsecho]

I have had the same problems with my 94 Toyota Camry for the past 3 years. She has over 140k on her, newly tuned up, new battery, and heet in the tank.

Only when it is snowing here with high humidity, or windy (over 25 mph), or we have an ice storm. I turn the car over, and she makes a grunt, then I turn her over again and she starts just fine. Until this winter that is. Now she does it all the time when it is just below 30 degrees out. Sometimes she doesn't. Sometimes it takes two to three times of turning the key before she starts right up.

I have at times turn the key over but not the ignition part, run the gears through all gears, pumped my clutch, and pressed down on the brake and it helps start her. LOL

I'm am going crazy here. I was told moisture builds up in the geers of the starter causing ice to form, so that the it doesn't engage until it thaws out or breaks away.

Any suggestions will help.

[jdmccright]

Lots of miles doesn't mean lots of wear on the starter. The starter is only used to start the engine, not run it...whether it is cruising at 65 or idling in traffic. Check the battery, cables, connections, and ground wire connections. The combination of cold and corrosion can prevent full power to the starter, causing the chattering sound.

BTW, I have almost 200k on my original starter...cold shrinking flywheel, my ass. Metal shrinks when cooled, but not that much. You can remove the starter to view the condition of the flywheel. Worn down teeth will mean your flywheel is toast. So changing the distance between the starter and the flywheel is just delaying the inevitable, and possibly putting extra stress on the starter.

[ProMan]

It's the flywheel. The design of the engage angle is not correct. When it's new, there is no problem. But when it got worn, it's very easy for the starter pinion to slip and unable to engage. The ultimate solution is to replace the flywheel to an updated version. But it's a pain in the a$$.

[quincyguy]

It was definitely the flywheel.
The good folks at Lee Myles Transmission did the job for a grand, including a new starter, and it's been fine. they also flushed the trannie and diff.
200K miles around the corner on this beast. Car came to Boston from NYC
with 90K on it. I bought it in '00 and put 104k more on it; supports my premise that if you feed them well, you can work 'em hard.
So - understanding why regular car shops don't like doing this type of repair, to trannie shops it's really no problem at all. Those guys know how to do 'em!

[GSS123]

Did you see the actual parts. Still find this hard to believe?

[JOET/CAMRY]

Originally Posted by ProMan

It's the flywheel. The design of the engage angle is not correct. When it's new, there is no problem. But when it got worn, it's very easy for the starter pinion to slip and unable to engage. The ultimate solution is to replace the flywheel to an updated version. But it's a pain in the a$$.

Hello ProMan,
Was this defective flywheel just an issue with the 92 - 96 Third generation Camrys or are you saying that the flywheel is worn and it wouldn't matter what year Camry it was on?

Regards,
JOET/CAMRY

[quincyguy]

I didn't ask to see the parts, although I know they would have shown them to me, a Massachusetts law....
The car spins over and starts like it's fresh off the boat from Nagoya, and in 10 -15 degree temps. So I know they fixed the ol' beast.
The flywheel/starter 'issue' seems to be the exclusive province of UAV's (urban assault vehicles) in unforgiving 4-season driving; headlights on, defroster blasting, wipers shlurping the slop off the windshield, etc., so I'd offer that this is not a uniquely Toyota problem, at all.

[RIP]

Well we'll never know for sure but, the main thing is your headache is gone. Thanks for posting the fix.

ProMan - How did you learn about the flywheel issue? Personnal experience? Read it somewhere? Mechanic told you? Anymore light you can shed on it? I've also got a 94. No starting issues yet but, this issue will give me one more possibility to consider when it happens.