Help - dash (rpm, speed, mileage) not working in 99 Accord

[sillysimms]

**Update - the car is also overheating** I brought my car, 1999 Honda Accord, in to a mechanic yesterday to have a power steering fluid leak fixed. They also changed the oil. At the mechanics, the odometer stopped displaying. As well, the speed, rpm etc. (the entire dashboard) is not working at all. At least I should say, the dashboard was displaying when I brought the car in but when I picked it up, the mechanic told me he noticed the kilometres were not showing and he checked some things and doesn't know why. I soon realized it's the whole dashboard display not working.

Please advise what could cause this. Could it have been something the mechanic might have done accidentally? Like loosen a wire or something, a quick fix? Or is it likely unrelated. The stereo was also asking for "code" when I picked the car up so it means the battery or alternator power supply had been disconnected. I've replaced the battery today as the car is a '99 and had the original battery but still no fix. This is the first time in more than 8 years I took the car to anywhere besides Honda and am wondering if I made a mistake.

The mechanic says he didn't cause it but has no idea what is wrong with it and I should bring it to Honda. I've called them and made an appointment. I asked on the phone what it might be and he said he'll have to see it but most likely the instrument cluster has gone. Is this an expensive repair? Sounds like it. Is it possible the mechanic loosened a wire or something yesterday because it's odd that it happened at the same time the car was in the shop.

This is a 1999 Accord with under 60,000 kilometres. I don't drive it very much but have never had any problems with it and dread the thought of spending thousands on it. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

[jeffcoslacker]

#1 I suspect they did it somehow and disconnected the battery either because they had something smoldering, or were trying to see if it would reset....the fact that the battery was disconnected is the smoking gun here, IMO....I'm not buying that they know nothing.

#2 As such, it's their responsibility...any attempt by you to mess with it will give them cause to deny blame...I'd take right back to them and demand the figure it out, or insist that they pay for someone else to do so...

BTW what was the actual repair to the power steering? I'd be looking for evidence of electrical arcing on or near the charge post of the alternator if they were working in the pump area...could have crossed it with a wrench and zorched some electrics...

[sillysimms]

Thanks for your reply. I do know the power supply was disconnected somehow because of the radio asking for a "code". I know nothing about cars and have found this out on the internet since yesterday.

Regarding the power steering - my husband topped up the power steering fluid in my car because it was leaking a couple months ago, but we noticed last weekend it leaked out again. He decided to take the car to his mechanic because he thought Honda would charge us too much if the whole power steering pump had to be replaced.

However, they checked it and said it was just a loose hose, the seals were corroded and it was rotted out. The fixed the leak and changed the oil for $105. Don't know if this is reasonable.

When I picked up the car they said "When I changed the oil, I tried to make note of the kilometres but notice it is not displaying". However I know it was displaying when I dropped it off. Also the entire dash is out. It all happened there but they say it didn't and the mechanic just noticed it when doing the oil change. They said they checked some wires and don't know what's wrong. It will have to go to Honda.

The car is 8 years old. We left it at the mechanics overnight and went to pick it up today and it wouldn't start. It is cold today and I had to boost it once a couple months ago. So it likely did need a new battery. We replaced the battery but still no dashboard.

I know the power supply was lost while at the mechanics or the radio would not ask for a code. I think that something happened to the dashboard there too but they say it didn't happen there and don't know what's wrong. If they can't fix it I have no choice but to take it to Honda. I'm guessing it's not likely going to be just a reconnection of a wire or the mechanic could likely have figured it out.

Would they have had any reason to disconnect the battery or alternator or power to the radio when trying to figure out why the power steering fluid was leaking? Thanks.

[jeffcoslacker]

That's what I was wondering...depending on the proximity of the fittings they worked on to the alternator, it's possible to accidently cross a wrench to the charge post on the alternator, which can fry random things....seen it happen before in my own shop, unfortunately...the post usually has a cap over it to prevent this, but sometimes they are missing or get pushed aside on contact, or you get unlucky enough to make contact with the small part of the wire's lug that protrudes from the cover...

One of my coworkers did that by accident on a Buick once, took out the A/C, power locks and wipers. We finally found the damage at a connector where the wiring harness passed through the firewall to the interior. Fixing it was easy enough, finding it was a bitch though...

[sillysimms]

Thank you. I do think something must have happened at the mechanics, although I'm not saying it was done purposely. It could have easily been an accident but they don't want to say it happened there. At the least, I would expect the car to be returned in the same condition I brought it in. There is of course I suppose a slight chance that the instrument panel blew out at the exact time the mechanic worked on the car, but it is unlikely. We had only driven the car for about 5 minutes since we replaced the battery because it is hard to drive when you don't know how fast you're going. Yesterday my husband drove the car and it overheated. Another problem which I don't know if it is related or something entirely new. He thinks it may just need a new radiator cap. It's just depressing that this is the first time in more than 8 years I've needed anything other than an oil change. It looks like a simple power steering leak may now lead to much more expensive repairs. We're going to have it towed tomorrow. Haven't decided yet if we should bring it back to the original garage and ask them to fix at least the problem that happened there or take it to the dealer.

Thank you for your help and I will update when I find out anything.

Any clue how much the repair will be even the entire dashboard does need replacing?

[sillysimms]

As well, another mechanic has said they may have just forgotten to reattach a ground wire. I don't know if that is difficult to determine or locate or not but the garage did tell my husband that they checked some wiring and couldn't figure out why the odometer wasn't displaying.

[sillysimms]

Now that we've driven that car, it overheats. Does overheating and an instrument panel that's not working point to a specific problem that you can think of? Thank you.

[jeffcoslacker]

Better start checking fuses, sounds like the radiator fans aren't working either...could be a fuse for the dash display also, I guess I should have mentioned that first. It would be nice if it were that simple. I wouldn't count on it, however.

This is starting to sound more and more like that one that got zorched in our shop....everything that got zapped was kinda random, systems that didn't really have anything in common with each other.

I have worked in the auto industry most of my life, unfortunately I can tell you it is standard procedure to deny responsibility until cornered at most shops...

For example: A friend of mine had just finished a complete restoration on an old 70's Camaro. He took it to a national exhaust chain to have new dual exhaust installed.

It just happened that another guy we know was up there getting an estimate for some work on his own car when the Camaro was being backed off the rack...and the front lower valance panel got caught on the rack, and rather than stop and try to figure it out, the mechanic gunned it, and the valance split in half all the way to the bumper as it tore free...

They parked it on the lot, the mechanic had the manager come out and look, they pushed it up and tucked it so it wasn't obviously dragging the ground, and said nothing about it when he went to pick it up. When he questioned them about it, they said they knew nothing about it...tried to say it must have been that way when he brought it there...

That was until the other guy came up and told them what he saw while he was there, and now they are cornered. The good news was they paid for a new valance and his labor to replace and paint it, plus gave him the exhaust job free. They got off easy.

There is too much happening here for it to be coincidence. I'm afraid you're gonna have to duke it out with shop if they won't cop to what happened...

[jeffcoslacker]

You know what? I was just thinking...

You said you had to jump start the car when you picked it up?

I'm wondering if it's possible they had to also, and reversed polarity accidentally...that will fry odd things also, I've seen that happen before too...

I would seriously have someone who knows what cross polarity 'spot welds" look like, and check all around the battery terminals and alternator post...I'm betting you'll find an answer...

[sillysimms]

Thanks. I don't know what to say. Someone else has suggested when they plugged the battery back in the may have connected the negative/positives wrong and when they realized their mistake changed it, but the damage was already done. Apparently, if that happened, there isn't much way to prove it.

I should have mentioned too, that we were hoping it was a fuse. But the manual shows the instrument panel and reverse lights are on the same fuse and the back up lights still work, so unfortunately it isn't that.

I am concerned about bringing the car back there but also feel that we should have gotten the car returned to us in the same condition it was dropped off in. We will either have it towed to the mechanic or Honda dealership this week due to the overheating when driven. In 8 years, the is the first time the car needed anything more than routine maintenance and it seems like a minor power steering leak repair may have caused thousands in repairs.

I'm thinking the garage is not going to take responsibility as they already have said they noticed the odometer was not working when they changed the oil. They also did not know why the stereo was asking for a "code" and the anti-theft red light was flashing. I would think that a lot of mechanics would know that unplugging the battery would cause this. They also said when we got the radio code it would likely fix the odometer too. It wasn't until after the shop closed that we found it wasn't the odometer, it was the entire instrument panel.

Any words of advice? Take it back to the mechanic, be polite, tell them our concerns and ask them to fix it? Or take it to Honda, pay whatever we have to get it diagnosed and try to have them document what might have caused it to happen?

Other than this one time, I've always taken my car to HOnda. I'm sure if I bring it there, they'll rub it in about why I should only let the dealer service my car. My husband had thought they might charge too much to fix the power steering fluid and took it to a garage he usually deals with. I'm thinking now it was a mistake.

Thanks for your posts and I will update when I find out more.

[sillysimms]

You must have been posting when I was typing! Now you're the second person that has mentioned the reverse polarity.

This is now going to be a big problem because the original battery is now gone. My husband went to pay for the repairs at night. He turned the car on to see about the "code" on the radio that repair shop was talking about. The car did turn on but no odometer display. The next morning, we went to pick up the car and it wouldn't start. I had to jump start it about 4 months ago, so we just assumed since the battery is 8 years old, it finally needed a new battery. We park it indoors, but it was very cold that night and was outside overnight so we thought the battery was gone.

So...hubby, bought new battery, replaced it, drove car home and it overheated.

I'm guessing that now that we've properly disposed of the old battery there is no way to research whether the original battery was put in the wrong way?

If that was the case, would it have started in the evening when my husband went to pay for the job? I'm beginning to wish we'd just left it there and not changed the battery. I'm guessing we're now out of luck proving anything if that's the case???

[sillysimms]

Update: My husband called the mechanic this morning to discuss this and he didn't call back so he went directly to the shop. The mechanic said it's as much a mystery to him as us. He thinks it was like that when we brought it in (which it wasn't). He also says they didn't do anything with the battery so he has no idea why the radio would have been asking for "code". My husband is a very trusting person and just wants to let it drop, saying we have to give him the benefit of the doubt, and there doesn't seem to be anything else we can do I guess.

We had it towed to the dealership. They've called. They have said the circuit board on the instrument panel has gone and needs to have the entire instrument panel/instrument gauges replaced. They don't know why it would happen in a car with under 60K but can't say the mechanic did something, they thing it's random. I think it's odd that it happened while it was at the mechanics, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Regarding the overheating, they asked if I took the radiator cap off. My husband did after the engine cooled down to check the fluid levels. They said we should never take it off as it is dangerous. Then we realized they thought were had been driving with it off so we confirmed that we did not drive with the cap off. They said they noticed fluids in the engine but they drove it for a while and it didn't overheat. The fluids likely got there when the car overheated. I told them the displays on the dash weren't working so my husband couldn't tell it was overheating until it was already hot. They wanted to know how he knew it was overheating without the displays on the dash working so my husband said that steam had started coming out of the hood. He stopped the car and after it had cooled down for some time, he took off the radiator cap to check the fluid level. They can't figure out why it was overheating as it didn't happen today but they'll have the car for another 3 days waiting for the instrument panel and will drive it more

The bill so far:

$95 to diagnose the instrument panel problem
$95 to diagnose the overheating problem (even though no solution found, we're still being charge)
$201 for the instrument panel
$144 for the labour

They said if they can find out anything about the overheating they'll call and advise how much that fix will cost.

Do you think it would be useful to ask to have the old instrument panel back when they replace it? We're allowed to request return of parts that are replaced in our province. Wondering if looking at it would shed any light on what happened? Should I request the old instrument panel even just out of curiosity or would it just be a waste of time?

[sillysimms]

Well, the good news is the car is fixed. You don't realize how much you need a car until you're without one for a period of time! My husband will either drop me off to pick it up tonight or the dealership will send their courtesy vehicle tomorrow to get me.

I just should make one clarification, as I just found out. There was a slight misunderstanding I think. When they called they told me the circuit board on the instrument panel was gone and the whole thing needed to be replaced. I guess I interpreted that to mean they were replacing the whole instrument panel. I'd called yesterday and asked for return of the old part out of curiosity. The message they left me today was that it's fixed, there is no core charge on the circuit board so they've left it in the car. I guess that would mean only the circuit board and not the whole instrument panel was replaced.

They seemed to try to be fair although I hadn't taken it there for the original repair. They said they've deducted an hour of labour to help offset the overheating diagnosis charge as they didn't find anything. So the cost came to just under $500/total including taxes.

So as of tomorrow I should have a car again.

I really thank you for your help. At least I got to learn a (little!) bit more about the mechanics of cars throughout this. Hopefully we won't have any more problems. Thanks again, for your help, very much appreciated.