B16b or FI B18c1 in lx sedan

[94tegRS]

I am probably going to own a 94 lx sedan soon. it has been wrecked but has only body damage(I hope so at least). It looks like wih just new body panels(most Id replace anyways) so I dont mind it being wrecked. she wants 800 but im gonna say 500 cash cuz she has had it for a while.

now, I have already been planning on what I want to do with the car and I know exactly what system i wanna put in, what body kit i want, what rims and what color to paint it. Already know what Im doing to the interior...

basically I have the whole thing done in my head, but I cant stop changing my mind about engines. I first wanted a B16b because of it is rare to have one in the U.S. and it is a powerful engine. but for some reason I really wanna be faster than everybody, which is why I am now considering a B18C1 and bolting on an intercooled turbo kit(revhard stage 2 maybe). but is this how the piping runs?, filter to turbo, turbo to IC, IC to TB. so I already know i cant get headers, but what about intake. do any companies make CAI's that go from the turbo out of the fender?

and I found the B16b for 3900 complete swap and the B18c1 for 3199 complete swap (hmotorsonline)

so price isnt much different but once i add the turbo then the GSR swap is more money. but If i had the turbo b18c1 and met someone with a b16b. and we could both drive. Id whoop em right. even if not off the line by the end of second Ill be winning again, right?

also, if I can only afford the swap at first. how much slower is a gsr powered civic sedan than a ctr powered civic sedan.

lastly, can you give me some websites where I can find performance parts for the B18c1, not like intake and such but stuff to strengthen the internals. and on the B18C1, is it the block or the head that limits its revs. cuz if all it took were stronger valve springs or having the block sleeved or..., then i would probably do it. the civicx comes with a imported engine they bought a year ago, stock though, but i might be able to live with that engine while I build up a nice engine.

also, if anything i said is wrong, (probably), you dont gotta call me stupid, I admit I dont know alot, but I want to some day so you guys gotta help me out.

Thanks

[civickiller]

everything you say is right, i think, lol. you say you wanna be really fast, well youll be fast with the gsr turbo. i am personally not a fan of type r motors, but thats me. i am a turbo guy not all motor. youd spank a b16b with your gsr turbo

[edman24]

well first thing, learn to use multiple posts man. you asked so many damn questions in one post its hard to keep up with all of them. but ill try to answer each one.

ok first you want to be faster than everyone? get the b18c turbo. it will be a lot faster then the b16b. and yes you were right about how the piping runs. and no you should not get an intake until you get the turbo in. hks and other companies sell special intakes to work with turbos and once you get a turbo in, there are no cai's anymore. just bigger short ram intakes to the turbo.yes a b18c turbo would beat a b16b assuming youre running enough boost. 5 psi and stock internals wont get you very far, remember this very well.

with just a b18c you would get beaten by a b16b on the top end. off the line you would be in front but after 2nd he'd kill you. about mods on the b18c, you need pistons and rods. basically thats up to you but i would suggest JE pistons and CROWER rods. look up those brand names and youll find their websites. for a turbo you do not need to touch the head and it is not recommended either. high lift cams and sport valve springs will cause you to lose power and wont last very long.

about this limiting the rev thing? why do you want to rev the b18c higher then it already does? it revs much higher than most engines and you woudlnt gain anything from revving it more. your ecu has a rev limiter if thats what youre asking and it can be removed. but i will warn you, this could be very dangerous. over reving engines without rev limiters is very common. that means either your piston rings fry or your crank busts a hole in your block. now, what was that about revving higher? i have a friend that just spent 30k on his bmw's engine alone. putting down over 500 hp to the wheels. had a stand alone engine management with no rev limiter and guess what? he mis-shifted. from second to first instead of third. all that money gone from one shift. i know youre thinking oh im not that dumb i wont do that, guess what, he wasnt that dumb either, but it happens. not to mention that revving your engine higher means that it will wear out faster.

so basically go with the b18c turbo, dont get headers or a cold air intake without the turbo, and no do not make your engine rev higher then it does now. its a waste of an engine and money

anything else?

[KrNxRaCer00]

Type r motors=over rated for lil bois to say "i have a type r motor." with the gsr/turbo, u'd absolutely DESTROY the CTR. with that motor (b18c1 turbo) in a car that weighs about 2300, u'd be hittin low 13's, maybe 12's if ur on slicks, compared to high 13's low 14s w/ the CTR motor. i understand how it sounds cool to say "its from a civic type r" but still...the after market support isnt going to be there as much, an its gonna be a lot more expensive overall (simply because u'd have to import a lot more of the parts if u had to fix anything). go turbo

[edman24]

and for those of you who say type r motors are lame and a waste of money, you need to do some research. there arent any other 1.6 liter engines on the street putting down 185 hp. and there arent any other 1.8 liter engine putting down 195 hp. that means that an insane amount of research and development went into these engines. not to mention they are rare and very sought after. yah youre b18c1 turbo might beat my b16b, but if i spent the same amount of money on my engine as you did on your gs-r motor, i could kill you. ive seen type r integras, turbocharged to over 540hp at the wheels. never heard of any gs-r doing that. and that was a daily driver on 92 octane.

comes down to this: if we each had 10k to spend on an engine and i bought the b18c5, and you bought the b18c1, then we put the rest of it into engine mods, i would beat you 100% of the time.

a lot of people think type r motors are slow because turbo b18c1's beat them. but you fail to realize that a turbo b18c1 would cost at least 1k more than any type r motor. its all about the money.

[KrNxRaCer00]

ur gonna have to get some lower compression pistons, then ur type r motor is basically a b18c1 w/ a better intake manny. im not saying the type r motors aren't good motors, but the b18c1 is a better base. i've seen more power then 500 in a gsr, runnin in NHRA. but then they are hardly even a b18c1 OR c5 any more. the type r motors are great motors, an the only ones that show them up displacement wise are the S2000's. i kno the potential of the type r's, i race w/ a few of them on a weekly basis. they are all going for auto crossing which is wut the type r's are set up for.

with the price difference of around 1500 dollars, an 10k to spend, u could build the gsr motor to be faster then the type r motors. u do have to understand tho, that jus because they are type r motors, they aren't nessecarily the best for everyone (especially in this case).

[B16EJ1]

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
Type r motors=over rated for lil bois to say "i have a type r motor." with the gsr/turbo, u'd absolutely DESTROY the CTR. with that motor (b18c1 turbo) in a car that weighs about 2300, u'd be hittin low 13's, maybe 12's if ur on slicks, compared to high 13's low 14s w/ the CTR motor. i understand how it sounds cool to say "its from a civic type r" but still...the after market support isnt going to be there as much, an its gonna be a lot more expensive overall (simply because u'd have to import a lot more of the parts if u had to fix anything). go turbo

I agree w/ you when you say a boosted C1 will kill the CTR but please don't knock the R swappers. Most R swappers mod their cars for what they were made for. Honda's were'nt made for the strip. They were made for the track. But yes if you want fast for the strip go boost.

[KrNxRaCer00]

now that i read that, its not entirely wut i meant. i don't insult ppl for the choice they make, BUT u have to admit that there are ppl whom jus believe because they have a Type R motor, they are gods an they don't have to do anything else. its gets old hearing

Them: "I have a type r motor"
Me: sweet...wut u gonna do?
Them: Boost it
Me: U gonna build internals an get new pistons etc?
Them: No, why would i? its a type r motor, its made to go fast.

thats all my point was, that in the wrong hands the type r motor becomes WAY over-rated. didn't mean to offend ppl who actually do kno wut they are talkin bout an enjoy the C5 power.

[shepworldwide]

my awenser for you on the 2 motors are?

do you mind tuning all the time if not go turbo..
i would think go all motor b16b r-style is good.....

if you wnat to build a car to beat everyone then go h series..or ls/vtec or up the displacement in you b18 block..don't forget the nawz :alien:

[edman24]

yah maybe you would beat everyone with a turbo h22 but remember shep that he is on a budget. the only problem with the h22 is that the parts are more expensive then the other engines but a turbo h22 would be soooo fat

[shepworldwide]

Originally posted by edman24
yah maybe you would beat everyone with a turbo h22 but remember shep that he is on a budget. the only problem with the h22 is that the parts are more expensive then the other engines but a turbo h22 would be soooo fat

i don't think reliable FI and budget go together

my opinion is if your taking your car to the auto x b-series is the way to go..

if your just building a ride to cruise the city and hwys with then an h terror is the best way to go. atleast for me it is...but in the end it's not my ride just my 2 cents!! but no matter what swap you do be prepared to spend at the minimum 5g's

[Emilio]

over reving engines without rev limiters is very common. that means either your piston rings fry or your crank busts a hole in your block. now, what was that about revving higher? i have a friend that just spent 30k on his bmw's engine alone. putting down over 500 hp to the wheels. had a stand alone engine management with no rev limiter and guess what? he mis-shifted. from second to first instead of third. all that money gone from one shift. i know youre thinking oh im not that dumb i wont do that, guess what, he wasnt that dumb either, but it happens

yo edman24, are you suggesting that if ur friend with the bimmer had kept his rev limiter, it would have helped him out in any way after he missed 3rd? his engine was at that moment toast no matter what....

But yeah i do agree, you only benefit from higher revs only to a certain point, depending on the engine and its setup, after which you make less HP than at lower rpm, so there really isnt a point. Besides, the B16a and B18C redline at 8000, thats more than enuff for the common turbo setup, in some cases the turbo even ceases to produce efficient boost to keep up with hte rpm's.
That is, if you do decide to go turbo. I know i would, For the money you would spend on an authentic spoon engine, you could get a well built B18C turbo and whoop ass... besides, gotta love the PSSSHHHH sound

[edman24]

yes i am saying that if he had the rev limiter it MIGHT have saved his engine and ill tell you why. i wasnty in the car with him when this happened. but my cousin was. my cousin told me that he wasnt racing just driving a little faster then normal. so when he decided to shift into 3rd but accidentally hit 1st he wasnt at redline. meaning that if he was at a low enough rpm and he went to first, the rev limitter could have had a chance to cut the fuel before he overrevved it. that was my point. of course if you redline it and downshift no rev limiter would help but it does save you in most cases.

understand???

oh and ahout the h22's reliability shep, i wasnt talking about the engine itself being reliable and the replacement parts being more expensive than others. i was saying that the performance parts for the h22 are more expensive than the b series engines.

understand???

[edman24]

oh and if i had the choice between an authentic spoon engine and a turbo b18. id take the spoon engine. yah SOME turbocharged cars would beat me but not all. a b18 with stock internals could never run enough boost to beat an authentic spoon b18 and last more than one race. and if i went NA vs. NA i would destroy anyone.

spoon for everybody!!!
you idiot, thats a fork.............:finger:

[Emilio]

eeeeeasy bro, dont take it personal

and btw,

of course if you redline it and downshift no rev limiter would help but it does save you in most cases.

You just said two opposite things in one sentence.... If he was in high enuff rpm's, so when he shifted into 1st his engine blew right away, then NO rev limiter could have saved him.
as you like to say, understand?
:finger: