break in period

[hondacivic99sivtec]

i just rebuilt my b16, we are in the process of dropping it back in and fixing the originals owners wiring crap job. everything on the engine is new. how many miles does it need before i can drive it? know what i mean? some have been saying 500 before vtec others ppl are telling me between 1000 and 200. what's your opinions? or facts. those are always good.

[TheSilentChamber]

Fast break in or the old fashioned way?

[thefooshmeister]

after i put mine in i changed the oil at 500 then waited till 1000 to turn on vtec and changed the oil again. dont kno what the facts are on it, i just babied it till i was sure i had it all tuned correctly

wheres the hairy knee tsc? now ive got a shotgun pointed at my face

[amy@af]

TSC

you have to let the new parts date before they get married. you don't want an ugly divorce

[TheSilentChamber]

Fast break in, its what most everything is going to now, alot of companys do this to new cars before they leave the plant. Bring the engine up to operating temp, run it at 50% of redline for 10 minutes (under load, that means on the street, not revving in your garage), change the oil, run at 75% of redline for 10-15 minutes, change oil. Give it hell for 15-20 minutes, change oil. After this, drive normal- the rings are fully seated. USE REGULAR OIL NOT SYNTHETIC. Oil change means filter also. This is starting to take over as the prefered method of break in, and its proven to work.

The Conventual methode, is baby it, change oil every 500 miles for the first 2000 miles. This is the way your father and grandfather did it- but the tolorances and materials now days are exponentually better.

Personally I recomend a fast break in, I'v tried both, honestly you wont be able to tell a differnce, I never have. The site I mentioned shows examples of how the fast break in reduces blow by.

As for the sig.. some queer bag got his panties in a wad and ran off crying.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by hondacivic99sivtec

i just rebuilt my b16, we are in the process of dropping it back in and fixing the originals owners wiring crap job. everything on the engine is new. how many miles does it need before i can drive it? know what i mean? some have been saying 500 before vtec others ppl are telling me between 1000 and 200. what's your opinions? or facts. those are always good.

Modern rings do not require a breakin anymore.
Old days we usd noDetergent oil to help seat them.
Do not use a heavey weight oil.
5w10 wt is a good breakn oil
As said good idea to change oil and filter soon or even slip another filter on it in a hundred miles.
I would suggest not holding a steady speed for a long period of time.
Slow up and then speed up a little during first 1-2K miles.
MT

[hondacivic99sivtec]

well there is a crx meet up in L.A. on the 5th and i really wanted to go. so ya'll think if i slap 500 miles on it i could drive 4 hours to get to l.a.?
and tsc i didn't see any site listed in your post.

[bambam89lx]

Originally Posted by MT-2500

Modern rings do not require a breakin anymore.
Old days we usd noDetergent oil to help seat them.
Do not use a heavey weight oil.
5w10 wt is a good breakn oil
As said good idea to change oil and filter soon or even slip another filter on it in a hundred miles.
I would suggest not holding a steady speed for a long period of time.
Slow up and then speed up a little during first 1-2K miles.
MT

I beg to differ. WTF are "modern" rings? If you understand the micro-process that's going on there, then you'd know why you use non-detergent solid weight oil. It has nothing to do with the rings themselves, it has to do with friction. Dino and Synthetic oil are too "smooth" for the break in process. They don't allow the wearing down of the "peaks" in the fresh hone. You want the rings to expand into the cylinder and wear down these peaks. Not to mention, if you run dino or synthetic oil before breakin has occured, you'll just end up burning oil because the new cylinders and rings haven't adapted to each other yet.
Any REAL engine builder will tell you the same thing. Seriously, if you don't want to listen to me, go talk to some reputable builders of hondas.

Here's what should be done, and like I said, any reputable honda engine builder will tell you the same thing, with very slight variances in mileage.

Initial startup process for new cylinders/rings:
Fill the motor up with 30W non detergent oil (quality does not matter). Just buy the cheapest you can find. Also, pick up the cheapest oil filter you can find (usually Fram). Check the dipstick periodically to see when the oil pan is full. Try not to fill higher than the upper most dot on the dip stick. It should be around 4 quarts (remember, you need a little extra oil for the vtec oil line).
Fill the motor with a 50/50 mixture of coolant to water. Believe it or not, the more water this mixture has, the cooler the engine will run. But, you need antifreeze in colder climates to prevent coolant freeze/expansion, as well as to prevent the water pump and sleeves from corroding. So, you would be fine to run 70/30 water/coolant ratio in the summer. Water does evaporate though, so check the level a little more often.
Make SURE you have your oil drain plug and oil filter installed, as well as your fill cap re-tightened.
Now, disconnect the ecu and turn the motor over for roughly 30 seconds to build up oil pressure. This is the easiest way to ensure you will not be injecting fuel and spark into the cylinders. Reinstall the ecu you will be using.
Fire the motor up and check for leaks. Make sure to check around the vtec oil line, as well as around the corners of the head, and underneath the distributor. These are common places for motors in general to leak oil. Make sure the oil pressure light extinguishes immediately. If not, turn the car off and troubleshoot. Let the car reach full operating temperature. Immediately begin to tune the car for a 14.1-15.1 AFR at idle. The closer to 14.7:1 the better. That's it. For the rest of the tuning, I'd suggest a street tune first then tune on the dyno, but every tuner has his/her own ways.

Oil changing schedule:
Initial - 30w non detergent
after 20 miles - 30w non detergent
after 100 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 500 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 1000 miles - your favorite non-syn/synthetic (it is now safe to run synthetic)

You should stop seeing metal shavings in the oil after the 100 mile oil change. I strongly recommend using a magnetic oil drain plug for freshly built motors. You don't want all those shavings being pumped to the bearings, cams, or splashing on the cylinder walls...bad. Don't worry though, they will be there, no matter how close the clearances are.

Now for the break in. Try to vary the revs as much as possible, with alot of short blasts. It is very important that you let the engine "brake" itself by just letting off the throttle and letting the vehicle slow down on it's own, while in gear. This creates a vaccum in the cylinder and forces the rings outward, which wears down the peaks in the cylinder's fresh hone. Do this for the first 20 miles, and then proceed to beat the shit out of the motor, up to it's maximum rev range, as long as it is tuned accordingly. As long as the bearings are within spec and the rod bolts were torqued correctly, there is NOTHING to worry about.

I guarantee you WILL NOT burn oil using this break in method. If you do, you probably have leaky valve seals or bad rings/cylinder hone, or maybe possibly even other major problems with alignment of the sleeves themselves.

If the motor doesn't hold together under stressful conditions now, then what makes you think it will 1,000 miles down the road? Babying it is just going to hurt your motor's performance down the road. I honestly want to hear some people's opinions on what they think "babying" is doing for the motor. I want to hear the faulted logic there.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by bambam89lx

I beg to differ. WTF are "modern" rings? If you understand the micro-process that's going on there, then you'd know why you use non-detergent solid weight oil. It has nothing to do with the rings themselves, it has to do with friction. Dino and Synthetic oil are too "smooth" for the break in process. They don't allow the wearing down of the "peaks" in the fresh hone. You want the rings to expand into the cylinder and wear down these peaks. Not to mention, if you run dino or synthetic oil before breakin has occured, you'll just end up burning oil because the new cylinders and rings haven't adapted to each other yet.
Any REAL engine builder will tell you the same thing. Seriously, if you don't want to listen to me, go talk to some reputable builders of hondas.

Here's what should be done, and like I said, any reputable honda engine builder will tell you the same thing, with very slight variances in mileage.

Initial startup process for new cylinders/rings:
Fill the motor up with 30W non detergent oil (quality does not matter). Just buy the cheapest you can find. Also, pick up the cheapest oil filter you can find (usually Fram). Check the dipstick periodically to see when the oil pan is full. Try not to fill higher than the upper most dot on the dip stick. It should be around 4 quarts (remember, you need a little extra oil for the vtec oil line).
Fill the motor with a 50/50 mixture of coolant to water. Believe it or not, the more water this mixture has, the cooler the engine will run. But, you need antifreeze in colder climates to prevent coolant freeze/expansion, as well as to prevent the water pump and sleeves from corroding. So, you would be fine to run 70/30 water/coolant ratio in the summer. Water does evaporate though, so check the level a little more often.
Make SURE you have your oil drain plug and oil filter installed, as well as your fill cap re-tightened.
Now, disconnect the ecu and turn the motor over for roughly 30 seconds to build up oil pressure. This is the easiest way to ensure you will not be injecting fuel and spark into the cylinders. Reinstall the ecu you will be using.
Fire the motor up and check for leaks. Make sure to check around the vtec oil line, as well as around the corners of the head, and underneath the distributor. These are common places for motors in general to leak oil. Make sure the oil pressure light extinguishes immediately. If not, turn the car off and troubleshoot. Let the car reach full operating temperature. Immediately begin to tune the car for a 14.1-15.1 AFR at idle. The closer to 14.7:1 the better. That's it. For the rest of the tuning, I'd suggest a street tune first then tune on the dyno, but every tuner has his/her own ways.

Oil changing schedule:
Initial - 30w non detergent
after 20 miles - 30w non detergent
after 100 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 500 miles - your favorite non-syn
after 1000 miles - your favorite non-syn/synthetic (it is now safe to run synthetic)

You should stop seeing metal shavings in the oil after the 100 mile oil change. I strongly recommend using a magnetic oil drain plug for freshly built motors. You don't want all those shavings being pumped to the bearings, cams, or splashing on the cylinder walls...bad. Don't worry though, they will be there, no matter how close the clearances are.

Now for the break in. Try to vary the revs as much as possible, with alot of short blasts. It is very important that you let the engine "brake" itself by just letting off the throttle and letting the vehicle slow down on it's own, while in gear. This creates a vaccum in the cylinder and forces the rings outward, which wears down the peaks in the cylinder's fresh hone. Do this for the first 20 miles, and then proceed to beat the shit out of the motor, up to it's maximum rev range, as long as it is tuned accordingly. As long as the bearings are within spec and the rod bolts were torqued correctly, there is NOTHING to worry about.

I guarantee you WILL NOT burn oil using this break in method. If you do, you probably have leaky valve seals or bad rings/cylinder hone, or maybe possibly even other major problems with alignment of the sleeves themselves.

If the motor doesn't hold together under stressful conditions now, then what makes you think it will 1,000 miles down the road? Babying it is just going to hurt your motor's performance down the road. I honestly want to hear some people's opinions on what they think "babying" is doing for the motor. I want to hear the faulted logic there.

Well everybody is welcome to there ideas on it.

Maybe years ago with old type rings yes we used nodetergent oil to brake in rings.
And when they got worn out it was back to nodetergent.
But rings and the so called breakin process has changed over the years.
Newer type rings have very little breakin to do.
I have pulled engines down with 100K-150k on them and they still have the crosshatch hone marks in the cylinder walls.
How many cars engines in the last 20-25 years have even seen nodetergent oil.
How many new cars come out with it in a new engine?
I even have a very hard time even finding the stuff.
How many re-ring manufactures co. say to use nondetergent oil to seat there rings?
MT

[Tony]

Ok, while we are on breakin, what would you suggest on breaking in a motor that you can't drive up and down the street? 20 miles going back and forth in a city back yard is going to be a very long day.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by Tony

Ok, while we are on breakin, what would you suggest on breaking in a motor that you can't drive up and down the street? 20 miles going back and forth in a city back yard is going to be a very long day.

Well Tony
Where there is a will there should be a way.
It would be nice to have a portable dyno machine on that one.
Or tow it out in the country and use someones back 40.
Good Luck
MT

[Tony]

I might be able to pull up some dyno time. I was orignally gonna just raise the front end off the ground and let it go that way, but I kinda want to make sure it gets broken in good before it hits the track because that all these(building 2 this winter for 2 cars) motors are gonna get.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by Tony

I might be able to pull up some dyno time. I was orignally gonna just raise the front end off the ground and let it go that way, but I kinda want to make sure it gets broken in good before it hits the track because that all these(building 2 this winter for 2 cars) motors are gonna get.

Good Luck with them Tony
After the old babbit rod days.
They always told me to break them like you are going to drive them.
But not sure that includes race tract driving.
But I am sure a lot of engines are broke in wide open on tract.
MT

[Tony]

Yea, thats what I was always told was to break it in the way its gonna be run, no sense in babying it.

[hondacivic99sivtec]

ok so i drive the car for 20 miles. (bambam) while doing that i speed up and let the engine slow itself down? then afeter the initial 20 i drive it like i stole it? my redline is 10,000. i don't have a dyno to tune on but i do have a stretch of road that's 1 1/2 miles long to drive up and down alll day.