3.1 air intake question

[mike_flemming]

I have a 95 lumina that i got about 6 months ago. When i got it, it had (and still does) a short ram intake with a k&n drum and a head shield on it. I also have the origional air box with a K&N panel filter thats new. Im wondering what is actually a better setup for this car? I first thought the short ram would be better but i figure that its sucking in hot air from the engine compartment, even with the heat shield. So im in a pickle about what one to use... any thoughts??

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by mike_flemming

I have a 95 lumina that i got about 6 months ago. When i got it, it had (and still does) a short ram intake with a k&n drum and a head shield on it. I also have the origional air box with a K&N panel filter thats new. Im wondering what is actually a better setup for this car? I first thought the short ram would be better but i figure that its sucking in hot air from the engine compartment, even with the heat shield. So im in a pickle about what one to use... any thoughts??

Probably won't make a noticeable difference in most situations...but there are dynamics figured into intake path leangth (both above and below the throttle plate) that come into play and affect cylinder charging at different RPM levels, generally a short path above the plate is desired for WOT operation, which you probably don't see a lot of on your car, so I'd think the longer tract would be more desireable for standard street operation.

You could bastardize it like I did, I used a K+N panel filter and knocked out three 1.5" holes in the lower section of the stock airbox with a hole saw...I don't think it could possibly require more inhalation area in stock configuration than that...performance seems slightly better and it sounds much more agressive...

[richtazz]

Does anyone have timeslips to verify the advantage of a K&N style filter setup? I firmly believe, unless it's a HIGHLY modded car, there is no advantage, and those style filters allow more dirt into the engine so they actually do more harm than good. The sound made by the non-muffled air intake makes the brain THINK you're going faster (like in the old days when guys flipped the air cleaner top over to get that intake howl on carbureted engines). Another issue with these filters is the oil. If you over-oil them, that oil can get sucked into the MAF sensor, ruining it ($160+ part BTW). Just for reference, a K&N filter installed in a new Duramax Diesel GM truck will void your warranty because of the two issues mentioned above.

[BNaylor]

I can't find that old study done on the Duramax diesel where the K&N came in last place. You remember that one right Rich? The stock AC Delco placed number one in the study.

Here's another one done on a Caddy.

http://www.caddyinfo.com/airfilterstudy2.htm

Again the AC Delco paper filter came out number one.

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by richtazz

Does anyone have timeslips to verify the advantage of a K&N style filter setup? I firmly believe, unless it's a HIGHLY modded car, there is no advantage, and those style filters allow more dirt into the engine so they actually do more harm than good. The sound made by the non-muffled air intake makes the brain THINK you're going faster (like in the old days when guys flipped the air cleaner top over to get that intake howl on carbureted engines). Another issue with these filters is the oil. If you over-oil them, that oil can get sucked into the MAF sensor, ruining it ($160+ part BTW). Just for reference, a K&N filter installed in a new Duramax Diesel GM truck will void your warranty because of the two issues mentioned above.

could be. Diesels run unrestricted intake, it wouldn't suprise me...my VW Rabbit diesel inhaled the diaphragm from the vacuum pump through the PCV system when a check valve broke...they are ruthless...

I believe the K+N doesn't filter as well as some conventional filters, that's a no-brainer...but I also dispute the importance of having the absolute smallest filtration possible for incoming air...I've been running K+N's since there was K+N's, and have yet to see any ill effects on engine longevity due to it, even after hundreds of thousands of miles on the same engine...you'd think i'd see some valve seat/face erosion or cylinder wall wear with oil useage after all that if you believe the hype, but no...couldn't prove it by me...

No dyno numbers, of course, but the "seat of the pants" assessment says it delivers more at WOT and may have a very slight edge in throttle response time...plus it sounds bitch, as you said..and if makes driving slightly more enjoyable even just for that reason, it's worth what I save on filters by only buying one for each car, and never again...

[richtazz]

Yes Bob, that is the one I'm looking for, but I can't find it either,

[richtazz]

Here is the link to the original thread that we had that article in Bob, but the link to that article is no longer valid.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...mp%3BN+duramax

Maybe from here you can remember where you pulled it from and re-post, a very eye opening and informative read.

[jeffcoslacker]

Damn dude...I have no idea how that happened...must be my new Mod superpowers misfiring...sorry...


How the hell did I edit YOUR post?

Weird...

[jeffcoslacker]

Oh, I know what happened. I now see an "edit" button on EVERY post, and I instinctively clicked on it thinking it was the "quote" button...

Sorry....BTW I can see you too, put that back in your pants

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by richtazz

Here is the link to the original thread that we had that article in Bob, but the link to that article is no longer valid.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...mp%3BN+duramax

Maybe from here you can remember where you pulled it from and re-post, a very eye opening and informative read.

Even our Flatrater posted the link but it appears to be an invalid url for whatever reasons.

But here is my final opinion from that Grand Prix discussion. So I'll just re-quote.

Originally Posted by bnaylor

Yeah Rich, it makes you wonder and it is good food for thought but even these so called independent tests have to be taken with a grain of salt too. What are the conditions applicable to a real world environment. If Underwriter Labs, Popular Mechanics or Consumer Reports reported similar results we'd probably take the test results more seriously.

In the issue of intakes such as CAI/FWI, people that have them are basically stuck with K&N style cone filters. They do deliver more total air flow compared to stock. For example on an L67 a CAI/FWI helps reduce knock retard. Any real horsepower increase as claimed could be debatable. However, in my case I would rather have one installed then not.

On aftermarket parts voiding warranties the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act puts the burden on the manufacturer of the vehicle to prove the part will or has damaged the engine.

In the end, it will be down to our own subjective beliefs, experiences and budget as to which oil filter or air filter works best for you.

[jeffcoslacker]

My original response that got tangled up in Rich's post:

If it's the one I'm thinking of, take a very close look at the data and the standards used in testing...the more you read, the bigger a sham the test becomes...they used a totally different standard for filtration effectiveness, grit loading and particle sizes of grit used, the two reuseable filters (K+N and another I can't think of) were subjected to completely diffent standards, grit size, etc...which made the initial assumtions look much more impressive than they actually were, once you got into the meat of the data...probably why it's been pulled and nobody can find it...(having this same discussion on another forum...and went round and round about that so called scientific test a few months back...pointed out the discrepancies and had eveyone who stood behind it running for cover...)

[Blue Bowtie]

I'm not sure about disregarding the importance of an air filter with good filtration. If you perform a periodic oil analysis of your drained oil, you will start to see a correlation between contaminant particle counts AND sizes in the oil when comparing a less effective AIR filter to a more effective air filter. One analyzer reports that in their results, over 80% of the contaminants in engine oil are admitted through the air filter of an engine. All that dust and grit is being pumped around in your oil since it cannot be caught in a standard 20µ single-pass oil filtration system. Cheaper automotive oil filters are not even 20 micron, but are more like 50.