ABS Light on dash

[TQuentin1]

OK. Got the ABS light on the dash a few years ago and took it to the Buick Dealer for a look-see. They said ABS mod. on the ticket, but the Service Rep. told me it was the valve block that was the problem. They said $1300 to get 'er done. I said "back it out!".

So I have replaced the valve block and the ABS module and the proportioning valves (and the calipers and rotors on the front). Of course the light is still on! Is there a "user-friendly" way to reset the ABS trouble codes that doesn't involve buying a fancy analyzer or taking it back to the Buick Stealer? Brakes work fine (although like Fords, I don't think the ABS works until the code is reset). This is a pain in the butt having to dissassemble the dash to pull the bulb so I can get the car inspected.

[Gnomonic]

If you are in Texas you don't need to worry about the ABS light for your inspection.

I searched on the very thing a month or so ago.

see this website for TXDPS rules on inspecting brakes.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/insp...temdrop=Brakes


At nearly the bottom of the page you will see this:

NOTE: Anti-lock (ABS) lamp or signal which is on or comes on during test will not be cause for rejection.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by TQuentin1

OK. Got the ABS light on the dash a few years ago and took it to the Buick Dealer for a look-see. They said ABS mod. on the ticket, but the Service Rep. told me it was the valve block that was the problem. They said $1300 to get 'er done. I said "back it out!".

So I have replaced the valve block and the ABS module and the proportioning valves (and the calipers and rotors on the front). Of course the light is still on! Is there a "user-friendly" way to reset the ABS trouble codes that doesn't involve buying a fancy analyzer or taking it back to the Buick Stealer? Brakes work fine (although like Fords, I don't think the ABS works until the code is reset). This is a pain in the butt having to dissassemble the dash to pull the bulb so I can get the car inspected.

It is illegal to pull the bulb or tamper with a saftey device.
Best plan of attact would be to get the code and find out the problem is.
The ABS system resets every time the ign is turned off and on.
Ps If the problem is fixed the ABS light will turn itself off.
Good Luck
MT

[Gnomonic]

Illegal to pull the ABS bulb out of the dash?

Uh...could you provide a cite for that?
What law specifically is being broken?

If the ABS bulb is not a required safety device (and in TX I don't believe that it is...see my cite above) then it is not illegal to pull it out.

Is it illegal to pull the bulb out of the ashtray, too??...I might burn myself on the lighter without that safety device.

Generally speaking, unless it is specifically prohibited, you can do whatever you want with your own car in the U.S.

But, as I cited earlier. In TX you don't need to worry about failing the inspection because of the ABS light. It will not be a cause for failure.

That said, you will probably be safer if your ABS system is working properly.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by Gnomonic

Illegal to pull the ABS bulb out of the dash?

Uh...could you provide a cite for that?
What law specifically is being broken?

If the ABS bulb is not a required safety device (and in TX I don't believe that it is...see my cite above) then it is not illegal to pull it out.

Is it illegal to pull the bulb out of the ashtray, too??...I might burn myself on the lighter without that safety device.

Generally speaking, unless it is specifically prohibited, you can do whatever you want with your own car in the U.S.

But, as I cited earlier. In TX you don't need to worry about failing the inspection because of the ABS light. It will not be a cause for failure.

That said, you will probably be safer if your ABS system is working properly.

http://www.epa.gov/air/caa/caa203.txt

It is illegal to tamper with or disable any safety device period.
Are you forgetting about federal rules and regulations?
Any time you operate your vehicle on a federal highway you are subject to them.
Federal laws come first then state and Then County and the city laws.
As in the case of Al Capone and pretty boy Floyd.
State and city laws failed but Federal laws hung them to the cross.
Also you are getting an insurance discount for ABS brakes on your insurance policy.
To disable them and not tell the insurance co. comes under fraud laws.
And in the case of an accident an ambulance chasing lawyers will have a field day if he can prove you disabled a safety device.

And here is just a sample of some of the federal laws.
Run a google search and find out for yourseelf what is in store.


Sec. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are
prohibited-
(1) in the case of a manufacturer of new motor vehicles or
new motor vehicle engines for distribution in commerce, the
sale, or the offering for sale, or the introduction, or
delivery for introduction, into commerce, or (in the case of
any person, except as provided by regulation of the Adminis-
trator), the importation into the United States, of any new
motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine, manufactured
after the effective date of regulations under this part
which are applicable to such vehicle or engine unless such
vehicle or engine is covered by a certificate of conformity
issued (and in effect) under regulations prescribed under
this part or part C in the case of clean-fuel vehicles
(except as provided in subsection (b));
(2)(A) for any person to fail or refuse to permit access
to or copying of records or to fail to make reports or
provide information required under section 208;
(B) for any person to fail or refuse to permit entry,
testing or inspection authorized under section 206(c) or
section 208;
(C) for any person to fail or refuse to perform tests, or
have tests performed as required under section 208;
(D) for any manufacturer to fail to make information
available as provided by regulation under section 202(m)(5);
(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to
sell, or install, any part or component intended for use
with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is
to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under
this title, and where the person knows or should know that
such part or component is being offered for sale or
installed for such use or put to such use; or
(4) for any manufacturer of a new motor vehicle or new
motor vehicle engine subject to standards prescribed under
section 202 or Part C-
(A) to sell or lease any such vehicle or engine
unless such manufacturer has complied with (i) the
requirements of section 207 (a) and (b) with respect to
such vehicle or engine, and unless a label or tag is
affixed to such vehicle or engine in accordance with
section 207(c)(3), or (ii) the corresponding
requirements of part C in the case of clean fuel
vehicles unless the manufacturer has complied with the
corresponding requirements of part C
(B) to fail or refuse to comply with the requirements
of section 207 (c) or (e), or the corresponding
requirements of part C in the case of clean fuel
vehicles
(C) except as provided in subsection (c)(3) of
section 207 and the corresponding requirements of part
C in the case of clean fuel vehicles, to provide
directly or indirectly in any communication to the
ultimate purchaser or any subsequent purchaser that the
coverage of any warranty under this Act is conditioned
upon use of any part, component, or system manufactured
by such manufacturer or any person acting for such
manufacturer or under his control, or conditioned upon
service performed by any such person, or
(D) to fail or refuse to comply with the terms and
conditions of the warranty under section 207 (a) or (b)
or the corresponding requirements of part C in the case
of clean fuel vehicles with respect to any vehicle; or
(5) for any person to violate section 218, 219, or part C
of this title or any regulations under section 218, 219, or
part C.
No action with respect to any element of design referred to in
paragraph (3) (including any adjustment or alteration of such
element) shall be treated as a prohibited act under such
paragraph (3) if such action is in accordance with section 215.
Nothing in paragraph (3) shall be construed to require the use
ofmanufacturer parts in maintaining or repairing any motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine. For the purposes of the
preceding sentence, the term "manufacturer parts" means, with
respect to a motor vehicle engine, parts produced or sold by the
manufacturer of the motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine. No
action with respect to any device or element of design referred
to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under
that paragraph if (i) the action is for the purpose of repair or
replacement of the device or element, or is a necessary and
temporary procedure to repair or replace any other item and the
device or element is replaced upon completion of the procedure,
and (ii) such action thereafter results in the proper functioning
of the device or element referred to in paragraph (3). No action
with respect to any device or element of design referred to in
paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that
paragraph if the action is for the purpose of a conversion of a
motor vehicle for use of a clean alternative fuel (as defined in
this title) and if such vehicle complies with the applicable
standard under section 202 when operating on such fuel, and if in
the case of a clean alternative fuel vehicle (as defined by rule
by the Administrator), the device or element is replaced upon
completion of the conversion procedure and such action results in
proper functioning of the device or element when the motor
vehicle operates on conventional fuel.
(b)(1) The Administrator may exempt any new motor vehicle or
new motor vehicle engine from subsection (a), upon such terms and
conditions as he may find necessary for the purpose of research,
investigations, studies, demonstrations, or training, or for
reasons of national security.
(2) A new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine offered for
importation or imported by any person in violation of subsection
(a) shall be refused admission into the United States, but the
Secretary of the Treasury and the Administrator may, by joint
regulation, provide for deferring final determination as to
admission and authorizing the delivery of such a motor vehicle or
engine offered for import to the owner or consignee thereof upon
such terms and conditions (including the furnishing of a bond) as
may appear to them appropriate to insure that any such motor
vehicle or engine will be brought into conformity with the
standards, requirements, and limitations applicable to it under
this part. The Secretary of the Treasury shall, if a motor
vehicle or engine is finally refused admission under this
paragraph, cause disposition thereof in accordance with the
customs laws unless it is exported, under regulations prescribed
by such Secretary, within ninety days of the date of notice of
such refusal or such additional time as may be permitted pursuant
to such regulations, except that disposition in accordance with
the customs laws may
not be made in such manner as may result, directly or indirectly,
in the sale, to the ultimate consumer, of a new motor vehicle or
new motor vehicle engine that fails to comply with applicable
standards of the Administrator under this part.
(3) A new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine intended
solely for export, and so labeled or tagged on the outside of the
container and on the vehicle or engine itself, shall be subject
to the provisions of subsection (a), except that if the country
which is to receive such vehicle or engine has emission standards
which differ from the standards prescribed under section 202,
then such vehicle or engine shall comply with the standards of
such country which is to receive such vehicle or engine.
[42 U.S.C. 7522]

[TQuentin1]

Thanx Gnomonic!! Good reference. I will print that out and take it with me in case the inspector gives me grief. Based on all the references that MT-2500 included, I guess it would be wise to put that little bulb back in the dash and not worry about it. I learned to drive up in the Northeast about 35 years ago on snow and ice when we had to "pump the brakes" to keep from locking up the wheels. So even if the ABS does not work, I am not gonna sweat it.

I am not sure that the ABS system resets itself. MT, if you have that info from the manual, I would be very interested in what it says. With the 95 LeSabre, will the OBD1 scanner show trouble codes for the ABS sys? I just got a 2001 Crown Vic, so that uses an OBD2 scanner. Consequently, if I am gonna get scanner, it would be advisable to get one that will be useable on both cars.

TQ

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by TQuentin1

Thanx Gnomonic!! Good reference. I will print that out and take it with me in case the inspector gives me grief. Based on all the references that MT-2500 included, I guess it would be wise to put that little bulb back in the dash and not worry about it. I learned to drive up in the Northeast about 35 years ago on snow and ice when we had to "pump the brakes" to keep from locking up the wheels. So even if the ABS does not work, I am not gonna sweat it.

I am not sure that the ABS system resets itself. MT, if you have that info from the manual, I would be very interested in what it says. With the 95 LeSabre, will the OBD1 scanner show trouble codes for the ABS sys? I just got a 2001 Crown Vic, so that uses an OBD2 scanner. Consequently, if I am gonna get scanner, it would be advisable to get one that will be useable on both cars.

TQ

It is basic knoledege that a ABS system clears itself every ign cycle.
It only stores history codes. If the ABS light stays on after start up you have a hard/present code or problem and the ABS brakes system shuts off if it light is on.
If you want to read about go here.
http://www.alldata.com/products/diy/index.html
Or get a good service manual on them.
Also another problem you may have on the scanner for a 95 in is inbetween OBD1 and OBD11 or could be either one.
You will need a special scanner and adapter to read it and also a scanner that is ABS capable to get ABS codes or read out ABS system.
http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
MT

[maxwedge]

Originally Posted by TQuentin1

Thanx Gnomonic!! Good reference. I will print that out and take it with me in case the inspector gives me grief. Based on all the references that MT-2500 included, I guess it would be wise to put that little bulb back in the dash and not worry about it. I learned to drive up in the Northeast about 35 years ago on snow and ice when we had to "pump the brakes" to keep from locking up the wheels. So even if the ABS does not work, I am not gonna sweat it.

I am not sure that the ABS system resets itself. MT, if you have that info from the manual, I would be very interested in what it says. With the 95 LeSabre, will the OBD1 scanner show trouble codes for the ABS sys? I just got a 2001 Crown Vic, so that uses an OBD2 scanner. Consequently, if I am gonna get scanner, it would be advisable to get one that will be useable on both cars.

TQ

The abs will reset if when the key is turned on it sees no faults, as it runs a self diagnostic. Ordinary scanners cannot pick up abs codes or data, so watch what you buy. Not being a busy body here, just tossing some info in the mix. BTW in NYS abs lites or function do not fail inspection.

[imidazol97]

Just a note about the long quote of "law" applicable to removing light. I started reading and all I saw and "new" vehicle for sale. If yours is not new, and not being offered for sale, then read carefully. The thousands of words quoted may not be applicable to your case as a consumer. I suspect it's much like electrical wiring in your own home vs the codes.

I point this out because I ran the website where I worked and was on a listserve statewide when some busybody from a side group took it on herself to impose what she thought was "good" requirements that all sites had to meet certain regulations for use by ADA folks. She quoted a federal code piece. So I read it (I have a background so I could handle it). She was citing something applicable to ONLY federal websites. Every website in the country did not have to have the ability to be used by someone with several handicaps in the way she, and her statewide group, thought. But they wanted to impose those rules so they bent the interpretation. So read carefully as to just what the regulation is applicable and note the penalties, if any, and note who is responsible for enforcement.

[Gnomonic]

Nothing in MT-2500's lengthy post prohibits removing the bulb.

Maybe he's right...but he sure hasn't shown it yet.

His link is to the Environmental Protection Agency site and clearly is referring to provisions of the Clean Air Act. So it is specifically prohibited to tamper with elements on your car in such a way that you defeat federally required emissions systems.

Guess what? I don't think the ABS light has anything to do with the emissions from your car.

You're grasping at straws MT.

I don't believe the ABS light is a regulated safety device.

Until you can show otherwise I think that it is safe to assume that you are just offering an unsubstantiated opinion...like mine.

Also, your argument for fraud shows a clear misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. No one has suggested that anything be done to intentionally deceive the insurance company for the purposes of financial gain, and the notion that one would need to contact their insurance company every time a warning light comes on on the dash is ABSURD.

I think you know a great deal about cars MT-2500...but a lawyer you ain't.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by Gnomonic

Nothing in MT-2500's lengthy post prohibits removing the bulb.

Maybe he's right...but he sure hasn't shown it yet.

His link is to the Environmental Protection Agency site and clearly is referring to provisions of the Clean Air Act. So it is specifically prohibited to tamper with elements on your car in such a way that you defeat federally required emissions systems.

Guess what? I don't think the ABS light has anything to do with the emissions from your car.

You're grasping at straws MT.

I don't believe the ABS light is a regulated safety device.

Until you can show otherwise I think that it is safe to assume that you are just offering an unsubstantiated opinion...like mine.

Also, your argument for fraud shows a clear misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. No one has suggested that anything be done to intentionally deceive the insurance company for the purposes of financial gain, and the notion that one would need to contact their insurance company every time a warning light comes on on the dash is ABSURD.

I think you know a great deal about cars MT-2500...but a lawyer you ain't.

You are twisting my words around.
I will make it simple.
It is illegal to tamper with or remove any saftey device.
Seat belts air bags ABS and brake warning devices or any other saftey equipment.
You can take it or leave it at that.
The burdon of prof is not for me to have to prove.
I am only posting to make the poster aware of the laws on it.
And the section 203 of the clean air act was only a example of federal rules and regulations.
Section 203 does not cover saftey equipment but run a google search and you will find plenty of one that does.
But any judge or lawyer will tell you in court of law being Ignorant of the law is no excuse.
MT

[Gnomonic]

I am not twisting your words.

You have clearly said that removing the ABS bulb is "illegal" and would constitute "fraud". In the case of the former you have said it several times.

Since you are asserting that removing the bulb is "illegal" the burden of proof is, in fact, yours if you wish to be taken seriously.

You seem to think that a simple google search will prove that this act is illegal. However, you can't or won't provide any evidence of that. Why?

Why don't you just google and find us the law that is being broken or even one instance where someone has been ticketed, fined, or arrested for committing this "illegal" act. If it is so easy, go ahead and do it. I'll admit I am wrong when you provide even a shred of evidence.

Unfortunately for you, I have tried to help you out by doing numerous searches for just this information...and couldn't find any. Perhaps you can do a better job searching than I did. Please go right ahead.

Yes, your clean air act link was an example of federal regulations. All you need to do now is find us an example that has something to do with the subject at hand...the illegality of removing the ABS bulb. I'm sure your next post will have ample proof that this act is illegal.

Personally, I believe it is only "illegal" to disable a safety device if it is explicitly regulated. We have no evidence except your hyperbole that removing the ABS bulb would break an explicitly stated regulation.

Let me give you another example. Brake lights. Some cars have 3 brake lights, but in many (perhaps most) places, only two brake lights are required. If I decide to remove the bulb from my third brake light, I have disabled a safety device. Is that illegal? No. And you know it.

Your blanket statement that tampering with any safety device is illegal is plain and simply WRONG. Your specific and perfectly clear statement that removing the ABS bulb is "illegal" is, until you show otherwise, assumed to be WRONG.

You are absolutely right that ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. However, IF THERE IS NO LAW you can't be breaking it even in ignorance.

Since I think this discussion is mostly about you needing to feel like you are right I will state again that you are completely right that everyone would be better off if they didn't disable any bulbs in their car, and they would be better off making sure all safety devices work properly.

So congratulations, you are completely, totallly, 100% right about that.

[BNaylor]

OK guys, I'm subscribing to this thread to keep an eye on things. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but lets keep the discussion cool and on subject/topic like giving reasonabe technical advice to the original poster. And lets play nice.

[highsmith16]

I too have a problem with my ABS lite on my 1999 Buick Lasabre that will not go out. After I started the engine and let it run for a minute or 2 and shut off the ignition it would reset itself and go out, but that does not work any more. I have hear something as simple as brake dust will cause them to come on ---- any truth to it. If so were is the sensor.

[maxwedge]

Originally Posted by highsmith16

I too have a problem with my ABS lite on my 1999 Buick Lasabre that will not go out. After I started the engine and let it run for a minute or 2 and shut off the ignition it would reset itself and go out, but that does not work any more. I have hear something as simple as brake dust will cause them to come on ---- any truth to it. If so were is the sensor.

Welcome to AF. This needs to be scanned on an abs function scanner for codes and comparative wheel speed sensor inputs.