Worked on my car today part 3

[Thor06]

Well, today I got some time to wrench on the Talon. Last time I got damn near nothing done, all of my time was spent fucking around with that damn intake manifold "stay". Today I got everythign else done and the head is off . The more I get into this car, the more I begin to wonder. Whoever had it before put the big16g in and didnt tell the next owner. Also, no bs belt! There was already a bs elimiminator kit in there. It did shake a bit at idle, I guess thats what was going on. Nothing unbearable though. I learned one thing today that I thought I should share. Ever have trouble getting the water pump or the crank pulleys off? I cut the alternator and ps belts because I was too impatient to figure out why the fuck they werent loosening when I played with the auto tensioners. Definately keep an extra cut/snapped water pump belt handy! Just wrap it around the pulley tight and vice grip it to something solid (used a part of a crossmember for the crank pulley, part of the engine mount for the water pump). Worked great. Well, I have more questions now than ever, so please answer all that you can! Also shit tons of pictures will be taken tomorrow and I am sorry for not searching, I just got home from work and I have to be back in like 6 hours.

Hows the quality on eBay crank pulleys? Do it or no?
How many mounts will a prothane kit cover? The timing belt side mount and the one on the front right?
I got a bit of PB blaster on the timing belt, should it be ok? Its in really good shape otherwise.
Is the intake manifold stay (bracket dealy underneath it) really necessary to put back?
Will a car run with one of the cams 180 off?
How hot does an intake manifold get? Will 500 degree engine paint stick do you think? 1200 degree?
What about the head? Will 1200 degree paint stick?

There will be more questions tomorrow after I take some pictures. Thanks!

[ez1286]

The prothane kit has all 4 mounts. How much pb blaster? Did you get it off right away? I'd still be a little worried just because of how corrosive that shit is (it's also my best friend and occasional lover). The im stay can come off my car didn't have one and i don't think any 2g's with 6bolts have them. No the car won't run with a cam 180 degrees off. I'd go with 1200 degree paint i doubt it gets above 500 but just to be on the safe side.

[Blackcrow64]

Originally Posted by Thor06

How many mounts will a prothane kit cover? The timing belt side mount and the one on the front right?
I got a bit of PB blaster on the timing belt, should it be ok? Its in really good shape otherwise.
Is the intake manifold stay (bracket dealy underneath it) really necessary to put back?
Will a car run with one of the cams 180 off?

A kit should cover all the mounts.
I'm not sure if PB blaster is corrosive or not. I wouldn't wanna risk using it again.
You don't need that bracket on the underside of the intake manifold.
It will run extremely shitty at 180 degrees off. pr_ricer had this same problem after his rebuild.

[ned032002]

What exactly does PB blaster breakdown? Rust? and what else?

[SLoe]

Originally Posted by ned032002

What exactly does PB blaster breakdown? Rust? and what else?

Rust, paint, skin j/p, its just a penetrating oil. We use it at work to break loose nuts and bolts. The belt should be unharmed. I don't have the IM stay either. Don't put cam in 180 out and you won't have to worry about it

[Thor06]

I think one of the cams was 180 off, I didnt put it like that. I'll be back in a couple hours with pics...

[Thor06]

Ok, got some pictures, more questions, and even a few answers? :o We'll see.

First off, heres the head on its disassembly table .


Heres the combustion chamber area. See the white shit on the side valves? Ideas? I'm thinking its from the coolant getting in the combustions chambers. After all, the end ones had the highest compression. The hg was pretty fucked. There was coolan on the gasket surface in more than one area. Also, the gasket was in pretty rough shape.

Heres where I was confused about a cam being 180 off. When we took the head off, we didnt touch the cams or cam gears. They came off as is. Notice how one of the dowels is off by like a teeth or two? The picture doesnt show, but if the dowels were turned straight up, the timing marks wouldnt meet in the middle, they'd both be on one side of the cam gear (right I believe). Thats why I was confused. I do remember the idle was kinda bouncy. Well, whoever did the timing belt put two of the same cam gears in so the timing marks are on the same side relative to the dowel. Because of that, they were unable to line the cams up good and thus the bumpy idle and shitty compression. Does that make sense or am I totally crazy?

I hope that the f'd up hg coupled with the timing being off a tad is the reason for the low compression. My plan is now to do a minor rebuild of the head, get the OEM metal hg, arp headstuds then put the head on with minimal other shit attached, get the timing right, and see how the compression is. Hopefully its decent and the engine will go back together. Also:
Since the cam gears arent right, should I get new ones? I read on here like two days ago aftermarket cam gears are pointless. Correct?
Soaking lifters in kerosene overnight will clean them correct?
With new cams you have to get new lifters right? How come?
Opinions on eBay crank pulley?
Other pictures, heres the shit I have out of my car.

Dad's project car... 1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe just like his first car.

Thanks guys!

EDIT: ARP head studs on the way! $63 shipped on eBay .

[SLoe]

That white is not from coolant Nothing to be alarmed about, it's from the air/fuel mixture. Maybe you were a little lean in that cylinder. If you were running too rich, it would have been sooty black from carbon build up.

You worry alot.

I would skip the cam gears unless you know exactly what you are doing by adjusting the timing.

Any type of non-roller cam is installed with new lifters, because the lifters make contact directly with the cam. This causes a wear pattern on the cam and lifters, and causes the lifters not to be useable with another cam (or even a different lobe on the same cam). Since your rockers have rollers, and the cams don't actually contact the lifters I wouldn't think you should have to replace them.

[ez1286]

The cams usual move when you take the timing belt off (because of the tension from the valve springs) bith dowels are supposed to be up at the same time.

[Thor06]

Ok, I guess I will wait on the cam gears until I get aftermarket cams or when I can find a good deal on them. I only have one class on Wednesday and Thursday is senior skip day so I will probably do some disassembly then. Hopefully we can get Mike's Talon running, it has fuel, compression, and ignition, we're just hoping the timing skipped a bit. My stock crank pulley is pretty nasty (and heavy) so I think I am going to get an eBay one. What do you guys think? I know david-b has a Bomz one...

[Thor06]

I took the cams, rockers, and lifters out of my head today. I guess I know why I had lifter tick . No scoring on the cams, caps, or the part of the head where they rest. Whoever worked on my Talon last is officially the stupidest mother fucker to have wrenched on a car. The thermostat housing dealy and the CAS were both held on with one bolt, the exhaust manifold nuts were finger loose, one of the caps on the exhaust cam were barely torqued down and the intake cam was off a tooth! Oh well, I guess its good that I am going through it.

Just soak the lifters in kerosene to clean them right?

eBay underdrive pulley?

[ez1286]

Originally Posted by Thor06

Just soak the lifters in kerosene to clean them right?

eBay underdrive pulley?

There is a way to clean the really well but sticking a pin in and compressing them, it's pretty hard i don't remember exactly how to do it i'll look and see if i can find it. When you clean them you have to refill them with oil. I personally would just upgrade to the revised lifters, the hole is three times the size and no more tick.

I wouldn't buy and ebay pulley unless it was a name brand. Something that spins that fast and as that much pressure on it could cause an ass-load of damage if it breaks.