fish tail problem

[TeamRedLine23]

I have a fish tail problem. I ass end of the car is whipping out when I take a turn. I was racing a Supra (I didn't even have a chance) and he took a sharp turn and i followed but I almost spun out. there is this other guy who has a Z and he has the same problem, just not as much. Is this because of HICAS? Will a limited-slip cure the problem? I know the tires play a role in this problem, I have Kumo supra tires. any input would be helpful. thanks

[freakonaleash1187]

oh wow. are you seriously asking this question? our cars, they are rear-wheel-drive, which means the rear-wheels go round-and-round when you step on the gas. if you give to much gas, they spin out. and if you going around a corner and you spin out with the rear-wheels, the rear-end of the car looses traction and there for start sliding, causing a "fish tail".

[1viadrft]

^ amen ^

[TeamRedLine23]

I knew that, I was just woundering if HICAS was playing a role of the ass end whipping around.

[freakonaleash1187]

HICAS does not engage until after i think 30 mph. after 30 mph, it might have an effect.

[Hodo]

Your Hicas most likely wouldnt cause what your talking about.
Some factors we must know before I could even begin to give you a decent answer.
1- how sharp was the corner,degrees would be nice?
2- how fast were you going when you entered the corner?
3- how fast were you going when it started to oversteer?
4- was the road wet, dry, or dirty?
5- when was the last time you had a 4-wheel alignment?

These are some rather important factors to take in.
Lets say its a 120deg turn with a posted limit of 30MPH this means it would be a realatively sharp turn, I found that my stock suspension 300ZX can take most corners at 2 time the posted limit, NOTE: I said MOST.
Now if you went into the corner carring to much speed the front end will begin to lose grip and "push" into the corner, causing a sort of shudder affect through the steering wheel. If you were carring to much speed after the corner and the rear wheels were pushed too hard then you would most likely had a oversteer problem, this meant that you were probly too agressive on the throttle at the point of the turn, this would lead to a great begining to a "power over" drift technic, but not good if tring to go fast. This can be further inhanced by haveing too much or too little rear camber.

My solution to this problem would be get a four wheel alignment done, then take your car to a open lot with NO, I repeat, NO other traffic or cars, and very little things you could hit that could damage you or your car. Then try and do a few donuts till you learn how to control the AoA of your car. (AoA means angle of attack, or where you are pointing the nose in relation to where you are going.)

My last couple of tips would be get better tires.
lastly, When you are drifting, "fishtailing", powersliding, or what have you, the car WILL go where the steering wheel is pointed, so if you over correct the car will whip back the other direction where the front tires are pointed, fast but persice movements will keep a car under control in a oversteer situation. I learned on the mountain roads of WV in a 89 Ford Ranger, and more in the military with the highspeed pursuit and evasion classes I took. You can do alot of funky stuff in a car that looks out of control and yet be in complete control if you stay calm.......

Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy "DONT PANIC"

[xXxRocker5150]

^ Don't all z's have VLSDs??

[freakonaleash1187]

all Z32's have viscous-limited-slip-differentials. some Z31's have LSD's, but i dont know what kind of LSD they had.

[xXxRocker5150]

^that's what I meant - all z32s... the z31 turbos from 4/87+ had non-VLSDs and the ss/se models had VLSDs

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by TeamRedLine23

I have a fish tail problem. I ass end of the car is whipping out when I take a turn. I was racing a Supra (I didn't even have a chance) and he took a sharp turn and i followed but I almost spun out. there is this other guy who has a Z and he has the same problem, just not as much. Is this because of HICAS? Will a limited-slip cure the problem? I know the tires play a role in this problem, I have Kumo supra tires. any input would be helpful. thanks

limited slip - you already have
HICAS- if anything would probably correct this problem


Tires play a huge role...if your tires are even remotely wore the traction will not be as great. i will check in with a tire shop and have them measure how much tread you have left...or you can go measure it yourself with a tread measurer and look up the tread specs for your tires.

how fast were you going when you took this sharp turn? he could simply have a much better suspension set-up and tires making him able to take a tur at a faster speed and your car not able you not realizig how fast you were actually going.

[apostrophe28]

1/4 of the reason i bought my z32 was so i could 'fishtail'. although w/ this whole snow thing outside my z wont be seeing light for another couple of months...

[DeleriousZ]

mkIV supra's are known to handle better than z32's from the factory

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by DeleriousZ

mkIV supra's are known to handle better than z32's from the factory

really? i have always seen/been told the supra's handling was poor compared to the Z32 an RX7 but a little better than the VR4's.

[MclarenF1]

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

really? i have always seen/been told the supra's handling was poor compared to the Z32 an RX7 but a little better than the VR4's.

Most mags thought that the last generation Supra was slightly better handling than the 300ZX, but just BARELY so. In terms of track numbers, the RX7 was probably the machine to have, but it was also known to jar the fillings out of the the driver's teeth on rough roads. (For that matter, the FD was known for doing that on not-so-rough roads, too.) The VR4 was a good all rounder, but the mix of street and track capability offered by both the Supra and Z were considered better compromises than the uber heavy Mitsu.

As far as the "fishtailing" issue goes, sounds like a case of either crappy tires or poor throttle control. Based on my experience, Z32s (especially turbo models) don't like too much throttle until you have started unwinding the wheel and have cleared the corner's apex. But then again, I haven't run across many high hp RWD cars that act would act any differently. 300 (or more) hp + tight corner= need for self control. Get on the throttle too hard, and an LSD will just make a strong RWD car's tail step out that much harder. I'll bet that Supra took the corner at a more sane speed than you think, and you just got overzealous in the process of playing catch-up. It's easy to do- especially in the heat of battle.

[TeamRedLine23]

I only gave little less than half throttle. That was right around 3/4 after the apex, but the car was still in a little turn. The turn looked like this _). It was a hard turn. I entered the turn at 25 and at the apex I was doing around 30.