93 Camry LE idle/fuel (?) problems.....

[InstallTech]

At my wits end here. This is going to be a slightly lengthy post, but my head is splitting from trying to figure this one out for the last 4 months o so, and I figure it's time I bounce this one off some fresh minds.

About 4 months ago, took my Camry on a trip to Iowa. While there, the car up and dies. Afte sitting for about an hour, I manage to get the car started again, and got it back to my friends house. Came back a week later to trouble shoot.

Checked compression ( 180 in all 4 cylinders )
Replaced Spark Plugs
Replaced Plug Wires
Replaced Fuel Filter
Put in a gas additive to help clean out fuel injectors.

That *seemed* to do the trick. Ran great on the way back home, and didn't give me any more problems....for a couple of months.

Recently replaced the EGR Valve, plug wires (again, cuz one happened to be faulty), spark plugs (just to be safe), Distributor cap and rotor.

At idle speeds, after the car warms up and has been driven for a while, the car will want to sputter a bit. RPMs dip below 900 for a brief second every 10 seconds or so, and occasionally a couple of times in a row. If I nail the accelorator to the floor, the car sputters for a bit before it'll get enough gas to get the engine reving. If it sputters too much, it'll die and a whiteish smoke gets kicked back out of the intake manifold (I took the intake hose off to see if that had anything to do with it).

Car starts okay. Engine runs okay otherwise. It's an intermitant problem, but *always* shows up after I've driven for a while and the car gets warmed up. NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ever comes on!

I'm pullin' my hair out on this one. Could use some help/advice/anyone that's had the same problem and had it fixed

[Mike Gerber]

You don't say under what conditions the car up and died, nor the symptoms when it wouldn't restart right away. Was the car moving or were you sitting at idle? Did it turn over (crank normally) or did nothing happen when you turned the key to restart it? That said, I haven't had this problem but I would be checking for a weak fuel pump. They have a tendency to act up when they get warm. I would get the spec for fuel pump pressure and get a gage and attach it to the fuel rail. If you can't find the spec anywhere else, there is a complete generation 3 manual at Automotiveforums.com, at the top of the Camry forum. It is in PDF format. You can get the spec there and some other troubleshooting tips. If you can't get hold of a gage, I would take the car in to a professional tech and ask him to check the fuel pump pressure.

Good luck.

Mike

[InstallTech]

I think the fuel pump was next on my mechanic's list of things to check. When the car initially died, I was exiting onto an off-ramp, and it just up and died. No warning. No check engine light ever came on before that. For a while after that, the engine would crank, but it wouldn't catch. After sitting for an hour or so, it finally started, and after putting some SeaFoam gas treatment in at that point. Thanks for your reply. If anyone thinks of anything else, I'd appreciate it, cuz I've checked just about all of the EGR system, and it all seems to be functioning normally.

[fabb]

Has the throttle body been cleaned? Steve

[InstallTech]

I don't believe that the throttle body or the IAC valve have been cleaned. Any tips on cleaning those up real good? I can get to that myself on Saturday, and if that works, I can avoid having to go back to the mechanic.

[Mike Gerber]

This should help with the throttlebody cleaning. It's for a V6 but it is esentially the same. There are some good pictures here.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/mainte...throttle_body/

Mike

[LANDO10101]

Scan The Ecu...you Can Not Rely On The Check Engine Light...it Can Burn Out Be Shorted Out Etc...do Not Count Flashes Either Have It Professionally Scanned....a Prof. Scan Will Also Be Able To Monitor All Your Systems Including Your Fuel Pump Even Though You Do Not Or May Not Have A Code Set Yet...
Good Luck
Also..cleaning The Throttle Body Is Excellent Advice..sticking Throttle Plates Or A Sticking Throttle Plate I Should Say Will Give You Idling Probs.

[InstallTech]

Thanks for all who are giving advice. I'm going to try all of it. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. However, if there are more ideas out there, I'm more than open to hearing them. I want to get this problem fixed. I love my car, and I want it to last a while. That's why this is so frustrating.

[Daniel M. Dreifus]

Try checking the ignition coil and also the electrical connector to the distributor.
Have heard of a number of problems with coils.
My Calif. version '94 happens to have the ignition coil mounted on the strut tower, but I understand many are inside the distributor, and those seem to be the ones that cause more problems.
Try testing for resistance in the primary and secondary coils while heating with a hair dryer and tapping lightly. If there is any variance, replace it.
If you're getting intermittent output from the coil, that would certainly explain the engine dying and sputtering.
I flag that scenario as much more likely than a fuel delivery problem, unless you can clarify by listing certain repeatable condtions where you have a problem.
Generally speaking, conditions that are random tend to be electrical. Fuel related would more likely be repeatable, such as only when going up a hill under load, with the gas pedal pressed more than half way for example.

[InstallTech]

Well, it looks like cleaning the throttle body and ICS Valve didn't work like I hoped. Still no check engine light, and the only codes that were thrown were from the sensors that I unplugged while the car was running to do some tests. It's running better with the new plugs, plug wires, distibutor cap and rotor, and a little better with the cleaning of the throttle body, but it still has idle issues. Here's what its doing now....... At first start up, it idles and runs just fine at about 1000 or just a bit above. When the engine gets warm, the idle will drop to about 900, but it'll still idle fine for a while. After letting it run or driving it for a while, when I'm in Drive sitting at a light, the idle will dip below 900, the car will sputter once, and the idle will go back up. Sometimes, it'll do that a few times in a row. There doesn't seem to be a drop in power or actuall engine performance. My mechanic told me that the engine itself sounded just fine. I'm still planning on taking it to the mechanic on Monday to have him check the fuel pump, but I'm doubtfull that it's the pump (though I could be wrong, obviously). It's a consistant thing. Once the engine reaches operating temp, in steps the problem. A while back, a friend of mine ( which was my first mistake), put in some more anti freeze. When I got the car, it had the new orange stuff in it, which seemed a bit odd for a 93. My friend put in the regular green stuff, so, I don't know if that would cause any issues or not. I plan on flushing the system soon anyway. Any further ideas would be most welcome.

[csaxon]

Possibly the ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENSOR. A cheap way to confirm this is to connect a voltmeter to the ECT sensor and check the resistance (ohms). Turn on the car let it warm and watch the ohm readings. They should decrease as the car warms up.
If the readings start going up and down erratically it means that the ECT sensor is gone.
These erratic readings are interpreted by the ECU like low coolant temp and creates an enriched engine condition ( to much gas ) and the car will do a warm stall.
If that's the case, buy a new ECT sensor and install it. You remove the old one and put the new one on with a bit of Teflon tape

[InstallTech]

Just tested the ECT sensor. Seems fine, but since I can't gauge *exactly* what temp the car is at at normal operating temp, it's hard to tell for sure. I think it's close enough that it's okay, but I also know that it would throw a check engine light if it were totally bad (unplugged it while car was running....no change in how the car ran for the brief time it was unplugged). There's no check engine light on when the car starts to "hic up" as I'm starting to call it.

[csaxon]

Does the check engine light come on at any time, like when you turn the key to the on position? I'm assuming the bulb is good.

[InstallTech]

Nope. No check engine light has ever come on during all of this. After all I've done, it still "hic-ups", but not nearly has bad as before, so it's entirely possible that there were multiple problems. Though....it still hesitates a bit when I'm sitting at idle at a red light after I've driven it a while.

[InstallTech]

Well....STILL having problems....STILL looking for some advice. Replaced plugs, plug wires, distributor cap, rotor, fuel filter, ECT sensor, EGR Valve. Compression test checked all cylinders at 180 each. No check engine light. It happens WHENEVER the engine is warm, now. The last couple of days here have been hot, so I start the car and it "hic ups" right away without driving.

HELP!!! This is a 6 month going on problem that no one can seem to figure out!