Help with 735iL Purchase

[dynamite]

So I recently found a good deal on a 1989 735iL from a non-bmw and small dealer, and was wondering if its a good idea to buy it. I will end up spending about $2900 after my trade-in (busted honda civic) so looking at the other threads here the price is okay. The car has had 1 owner, 133,000 miles, test drove it, heavy but smooth and exciting, my first bmw:-) . Any forseeable engine/transmission/electronics problems? I was thinking of getting it checked by a BMW dealer before I actually purchase it. The battery was dead, so the dealer is going to put in a new battery which means the code in radio needs to be reset. The dealer said that you can get it taken care of for cheap ($10) at a BMW dealer. Is that true? The paint job on the car is still stunning, and its going to be detailed before I buy it. So what do you guys think? What else should I check for now before spending $$ for a complete checkup at BMW...if they will do a 1989 735?

[csieminski]

That's very exciting that you are considering buying this car. 133,000 miles is almost nothing on a car like this. It could easily be only halfway through its useful life. I bought my 1990 535i exacly one year ago tomorrow (Apr. 29 ) with 129,700 miles--it now has 162K. That 735iL has exacly the same engine and transmission as my car, and both units are known to be very robust.

I'd get the car inspected if possible--I don't know if the BMW dealer will do this for you, but probably not for cheap--although again I don't know. I'd find an independent mechanic knowledgeable with BMWs and take it there. If the dealer who has the car is willing to let you take the car there, that speaks well for them and I would be more encouraged to purchase the car.

I have a book, "BMW Buyer's Guide" by Fred Larimer, and he lists some things to check for on an E32 (1988-1994) 7-Series. This list is not exhaustive, but it should be a decent starting point.

1. oil and coolant leaks
2. climate control--very complex and "prone to problems". Check that both heat and A/C work.
3. I believe a self-leveling rear suspension was standard on all 7's, and that is extemely expensive to fix if it's not working.
4. Make sure the brake pads and rotors are in good condition. The 735iL weighs almost 2 tons and obviously puts more stress on its brakes than a lighter car. I didn't get my 535i inspected before I purchased and ended up having to spend $635 in front brakes/rotors right off the bat so it would pass MD inspection.

The 3.4-liter inline-6 in the 535i, 635CSi and 735i/iL was in use long before your particular 735iL was built, and like I said it is a long-lasting, dependable engine.

I've heard mixed opinions about the ZF 4HP22 automatic transmission. Several posters on this forum have discussed 7-Series transmission failure around 150K. HOWEVER, both my old '86 528e and my current 535i use that exact same transmission. My 535i is shifting like brand new, and so did my 528e when I sold it. My mechanic (who sold me the 528) said that its transmission had never been replaced, meaning it had provided service for almost 300,000 miles. He also said that he has never seen a failure of that model of transmission on any BMW he has worked on (and he's quite experienced).

In general, I really like the E32 7-Series--considered 735's when I was looking for my car last year. They've got all kinds of luxury amenities, and like all BMW's have a good, common-sense layout and thoughtful, practical features too. The downside is that the 7-Series is the most complex BMW electronically, although like I said they are mechanically straightforward and dependable.

Personally, I prefer the large size and weight as well--it drives with authority and will be safer in an accident than a smaller car.

DO NOT expect good gas mileage just because it is a six-cylinder. I average 17.6 mpg with my 535i in a mix of city/highway driving, and the 735iL is even heavier. Look at it this way--EPA estimates for the inline-6 535i and 735i/iL are about the same as those for the V-8 540i and 740i/iL that replaced them. So fuel-wise, you are essentially purchasing a V-8 sedan. I DO think that the healthy amount of torque equating to solid acceleration and effortless high-speed punch makes the extra gas worth it . Maybe not if gas is $5.00/gal., though .

All in all, if everything checks out and you are comfortable with the fuel situation, I would recommend you buy this car. I'm sure it will be rewarding to own.

[dynamite]

So got the car checked out today by an official BMW dealer. The only things they came up with were: 1) change motor mounts, 2) change tranny mounts, 3) change drive belts. Now I took this report back to the dealer that owns this car and he didnt agree with #1 and possibly #2. He said that if the motor mounts were bad then the engine would shake pretty bad when you start the car up and when you go from Parked to Drive. He even demo'ed it with his Mercedez and I sorta saw the point. Both BMW and the Mercedez engine did the normal shake when starting up, and not much at all when it went from Parked to Drive. What do you guys think?

As for #3, he said thats cheap and easy and def. not $250 (what the BMW dealers quoted, and 1100 for motor mounts, 570 for transmission mounts).

[redhed]

Keep in mind that dealerships are almost always going to be the MOST expensive option. They are also generally known for trying to get as much money out of you as possible. (I'm not talking about BMW specifically, I'm talking about dealerships in general) I avoid taking mine to a dealership except as an unavoidable last resort. Find a good mechanic that works on foreign cars.

[csieminski]

Yes, if the motor mounts were bad, I have heard the engine definitely would shake when you put the car in gear. Transmission mounts I don't know. Drive belts? Maybe they do need to be changed, but it sounds like by now the dealer was scratching to find things they could report to you. As a result, yes, I would be a little suspect of their other two diagnoses. If you DO need to buy any of those parts, try to get aftermarket ones (some people would disagree with me here) if the quality seems as good as BMW's. You could also buy the car and then join BMWCCA (been a member for 1 year). A lot of BMW dealers honor club members with up to a 20 or 30% discount on parts (shop around in this case).

If that's all that they found, on a car with a very reasonable 133K miles, then I don't know why you haven't purchased yet.

[dynamite]

Originally Posted by csieminski

Yes, if the motor mounts were bad, I have heard the engine definitely would shake when you put the car in gear. Transmission mounts I don't know. Drive belts? Maybe they do need to be changed, but it sounds like by now the dealer was scratching to find things they could report to you. As a result, yes, I would be a little suspect of their other two diagnoses. If you DO need to buy any of those parts, try to get aftermarket ones (some people would disagree with me here) if the quality seems as good as BMW's. You could also buy the car and then join BMWCCA (been a member for 1 year). A lot of BMW dealers honor club members with up to a 20 or 30% discount on parts (shop around in this case).

If that's all that they found, on a car with a very reasonable 133K miles, then I don't know why you haven't purchased yet.

Sorry, got a bit carried away with driving my car around I am setting up a blog (http://bmw-mania.blogspot.com/, feel free to comment there), and will detail all the work that I put into the car. Should be a good place to start putting 1989 735iL related info. Yes aftermarket parts are the best, and quite cheap as well. There's tons of things to work on, including replacing the LKM I think (the lcd lights in the pannel don't come on once in a while, but other times it will work just fine...is that the right thing to look at?) Also any ideas on how to get rid of the old leather smell in the car? Its gets annoying quite quickly. I tried Armor-All Leather but to no avail.

Thanks for all the help This car was definitely what I was looking for.

Shawn

[csieminski]

The car looks very nice--that dark blue color is not very common, but it looks good, and the car looks really clean too.

I don't know about the LKM--it COULD be an issue; I'm not sure. It sounds to me like your instrument cluster just has some flaws and could be replaced if necessary. I've heard that LKM problems are associated with stuff like headlights suddenly going off while driving, etc. I've never experienced anything like that and don't think it's that common, but...

I don't think I yet mentioned www.e38.org to you. You should absolutely CHECK OUT THAT SITE. There's a TON of stuff on the 1995-2001 (E38) 7-Series, but also quite a bit on your E32 design, as well as some other BMW information and project descriptions. You will absolutely find more than one replacement/repair/refurbishment/upgrade procedure to do by yourself right now--plenty of ideas. Lots of good informational photos and other helpful tips. The LKM is mentioned on that site too.

I was concerned to read on your site about trouble getting the car above 60 mph--I would expect you to have trouble keeping the vehicle under 70 mph, as I do with my 535i! However, I was happy to learn the issue was floormat-related.

I use Lexol leather cleaner and conditioner. It is much better than that Armorall or Blue Magic-whatever stuff. Don't know about taking away the smell, but you should clean and condition your leather regularly anyway.

Well, congratulations are definitely in order. Keep in touch.

Craig

[csieminski]

Oh, also let me know if your driver/passenger power headrests work (push up/down on the backrest adjustment button). They probably will not work--you'll hear the motor but nothing will happen.

If this is the case, I can explain to you how to fix this in less than 45 minutes total time (more like 20 minutes if you're familiar with the procedure) FOR FREE (no parts needed except a wire coat hanger).

I fixed both my E28 and my current E34 this way.

[dynamite]

Will check as soon as I get back to California..currently in Indiana (purdue university) attending friends' graduation mumbo jumbo.

[dynamite]

So, as far as seats are concerned, the driver side headrest motor makes some noise, and as you said, the head rest doesnt move. The passenger side motor doesn't even work (makes no noise...). Also none of the controls on both the rear power seats work. Would this be expensive to fix? Frankly, I am not too worried about the rear seats, but would be nice to have (I have plenty of friend w/o rear power seats)

On another note, I think I am going to set up a site of some sort to track all the things that need fixing, and how I go about doing it. Blog is too simplified for this purpose.

Thanks

Shawn

[dynamite]

Okay, so turns out the car needs to be on in order for the back seats to operate. The front ones operate even if the car is not on. Anyways, the back seats work a.okay. Including the head rests. And both the front headrests don't. And I do hear the motor churning away at something w/o any movement. So please do let me know how to fix it

Shawn

[No-Support-from-GM]

GMC says they back their products, but i have a GMC built transmission that was had a gaurentee of 3 years or 60000 kms. their new warrenty is for 90000 kms.

i have just over 20000 kms on my trans and it kicked it. i maintain it as i should, and drive it in normal expected conditions.

i have contacted my local GMC dealer and they told me that they would not stand behind their work or their warrenty.

I recommend to all not to buy GMC products of any kind, they will leave you high and dry, with an empty wallet.

ps - No one told me GMC stood for Gimmie More Cash

[csieminski]

Shawn,
Sorry, been busy with exams, etc. First of all, here's the link where I learned how to do this:

http://www.garageboy.com/e28/headrest.html

The E34 is the same way, and I'm certain the E32 is, too. There are two philips screws on either side of the bottom of the driver's and passenger's seatbacks. After you take these out, you'll need to push UP on the seatback portion because there are two flexible metal clips that hold the bottom of the seatback piece to the backrest frame. After you get the bottom out, just pull down and take the seatback panel out of the car.

You should see the motor--a small flat-finish bare metal cylinder attached to the seatframe under the headrest, with a thick cable going in one end. You want to get this cable out of the motor. It just pulls out, but only after you've removed at least one of the two bolts that secures the motor to the seatframe. YOU DO NOT NEED TO OPEN UP THE MOTOR or anything. Just pull out the cable once you get it loose from the seatback frame.

Then just take your 1/4" or so piece of metal coathanger (metal conductivity has nothing to do with it--just that a piece of a metal coathanger is about the right size) and simply drop it in the hole you pulled the cable out of. Stick the cable back in, bolt the motor back in place and test. Should work. Put the seatback back on, sliding the top part in first and then reaching under the bottom to bend the metal clips over the edge of the seat frame. That's it. I've perfomed this in both my BMW's and the headrests continued working as long as I had the cars (so far in my 535i).

I've never gone to a BMW dealer to complain and see what solution THEY recommend, but it would be interesting.

Btw, the picture of your 735iL by your posts is very nice. I need to update my pic, but the one I have there now is actually of my car sitting in front of a motel in Louiseville, Quebec (well north of Montreal). I live in Maryland, so that picture is kind of unique to me.

Also, how does your new car stack up against the Honda Civic you had? Best wishes.

[dynamite]

Hey Craig,

Sorry been busy myself with work and other random things...funny, I don't have a single wire hanger! So I decided to order $400 worth parts for tune-up which will be getting here tomorrow! I will keep you posted.

Shawn

PS. I did a complete exterior detailing myself, 3 steps to complete car waxing...and it looks so beautiful I will put pics and stuff on my blog soon. Oh and bought a thick gauge wire today for the seat repair.

[csieminski]

That is good to hear about the tuneup. You can read about my experience with oxygen sensor replacement/tuneup somewhere on the 5-Series forum. Even though my car drove great just before the oxygen sensor went south, I did notice that it somehow drove even BETTER after the tuneup.

What REALLY was amazing was several months before, when my mechanic did a $69.95 fuel injection service. For about 2-3 weeks after, the engine was so smooth and strong that I absolutely was ready to bet money a chip had been installed. And again, it did NOT drive badly before--did not hesitate or anything. I simply got the injection service on a whim and was definitely not expecting such an improvement because I did not think it was possible for the car to run that much better than it had been doing. I'd highly recommend having someone do a full injection service (where they also "vacuum out" and replace the engine oil) just for the heck of it, to see what happens. When it's in good shape, I swear the 3.4-liter six pulls more strongly than V-8 cars I've driven, including Caprices, Crown Vics and Cadillacs, not to mention being almost as fast as an SC 400 I drove a while ago.

Let me know how the headrest repair goes. It's a bit annoying and not a very glamorous job, but the satisfaction of not hearing the useless grinding of the headrest motor should pay off in the long run.

I ordered a whole bunch of detailing stuff--Klasse polish and sealant glaze, carnuaba wax, metal polish, etc. I've actually detailed several of my dealer friend's cars (including a 1995 525iA I'm driving right now) but still have not gotten around to my own car. I'd love to see the pictures when you're done--that 735 looks very clean from what you've posted. By the way, if you don't already know, check out www.properautocare.com. It is a utopia for the clean-car enthusiast!