cruise control gives out, stalling, bucking

[econdrey]

I have recently purchased a 1994 Bonneville with 112K miles on it...it was owned by a 85 yr old lady and the car is in perfect shape body wise, interior wise, and mechanical wise except for a few problems...i have had a few things done on the car as far as upkeep since I have had it (i.e.-water pump, tie rod, tires rotated/balanced, oil changed, 2 new speakers in left hand side-which sound great-, new alternator, door panels repaired, drive belt replaced, new wiper blades, etc.)---the problem lies with the car cutting off and loosing all power at various times...the local Pontiac dealership stated that the negative battery terminal bolt had corroded and they replaced the bolt and that took care of the problem with the care shutting off for a while but it has recently started back...the cruise control will also stop working at various times as you are just driving down the road...the car will buck, run low, idle high, shimmy, and shake as you are sitting at red lights...it will also buck like it is fixing to take off without pressing the gas or giving it any juice...i also have a problem with the car having to warm up for a few minutes before you are able to put in into drive or reverse...i have been told this problem lies within the seals going out in the transmission...i would like to know if anyone knows anything about the car sporatically shutting down and loosing all power at various times...the cruise control issue also has me puzzled...usually one the cruise stops working you have to turn the cruise control swith to off and let it rest for a while and sometimes it will begin to work again and sometimes not...once you shut the car off and let it sit the cruise control will usually work fine...also when starting out at red lights and so forth the car will shimmy, shake, and buck like it does not have all of its power or is struggling to get its full juice...the problem is sporatically and of course the local Pontiac dealership has not been able to find anything wrong nor does the problem occur while it is at the shop...overall it is a great car but if i could solve the shutting off and the bucking it would be the best car i have ever had...i have already spoke to a local tranny shop and will have the transmission overhauled at a very reasonable price and can count on the work due to it being a family friend....can anyone help point me in the direction i need to get the shutting off fixed and the bucking at redlights fixed....if you need to know more details etc please feel free to ask me...i love the car and it is very roomy, nice sound system and great riding car for the open roads...i have already had many comments about the car and how nice neat and clean it is......can anyone help? thanks for your time and reading my long drawn out problem!

[LMP]

First are you able to retreive any diagnostic codes? in '94, This is OBD1 and there is a trick. If not know, come back and ask.
Is the SES (service engine soon) light on at any moment? THis looks as one of 2 things:
- faulty throttle position sensor (TPS) - should give a code 21 or 22. This code will stop cruise from engaging, also will stop 4th gear and torque converter clutch.
- faulty fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump...although this one is suggested very often, I'd check for other things first.

...I also read with great interest the thread " 1995 Bonneville - stalls and windows fail" . In case you have no clue related to the above, this ground problem under the carpet is an interesting (although ?!?*?#*) option.....

[econdrey]

Originally Posted by LMP

First are you able to retreive any diagnostic codes? in '94, This is OBD1 and there is a trick. If not know, come back and ask.
Is the SES (service engine soon) light on at any moment? THis looks as one of 2 things:
- faulty throttle position sensor (TPS) - should give a code 21 or 22. This code will stop cruise from engaging, also will stop 4th gear and torque converter clutch.
- faulty fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump...although this one is suggested very often, I'd check for other things first.

...I also read with great interest the thread " 1995 Bonneville - stalls and windows fail" . In case you have no clue related to the above, this ground problem under the carpet is an interesting (although ?!?*?#*) option.....

the dealer says they can find no codes...the check gauges and svc engine soon light will come on when the car shuts off, along with the chime but what good does that do when you are stopped in traffic with a stalled car...i cant call the dealer at that point to come tow the car, just so they can get a code...from my understanding when you crank the car back up the code is then gone...i have read plenty of other posts on this site related to the problem and really dont know where to begin...kinda thought the crankshift sensor would be my first choice, but i am not sure...thanks for the input and i am all ears to any other suggestions...i feel it is something minor that cant really be located...kinda wondered if it is vaccum related?...i havent changed the plugs and wires at this point either but i turn from that because if it were the plugs/wires the problem would be constant...any more suggestions?

[LMP]

OK then my second choice would be the EGR valve (one unit blocked open) since this would specially hurt idling...but then you would have a code 53,54 ,55 or 56.......www.avigex.ca/xport/egr1.jpg www.avigex.ca/xport/egr2.jpg Notice that when the problem is not present, the SES light will disappear but the code stays and can be retreived.
If nothing there, I lean with reluctance on the side of failed fuel supply (pump, filter, regulator)since this fault generates no codes.
The only problem I had personnally in that matter is a dirty MAF Mass Air FLow sensor www.avigex.ca/xport/maf.jpg , but it did not show exactly in the way you explain......but just to mention there that everyone at that time would say my problem was with the fuel supply and were ready to changes parts one by one until solved...which would not have happened since it was the MAF......ahh....I had driven the car without the air filter for a little while and air carried mud has blanked the sensor hot wire. Cleaned with alcohol....and presto....

[econdrey]

Originally Posted by LMP

OK then my second choice would be the EGR valve (one unit blocked open) since this would specially hurt idling...but then you would have a code 53,54 ,55 or 56.......www.avigex.ca/xport/egr1.jpg www.avigex.ca/xport/egr2.jpg Notice that when the problem is not present, the SES light will disappear but the code stays and can be retreived.
If nothing there, I lean with reluctance on the side of failed fuel supply (pump, filter, regulator)since this fault generates no codes.
The only problem I had personnally in that matter is a dirty MAF Mass Air FLow sensor www.avigex.ca/xport/maf.jpg , but it did not show exactly in the way you explain......but just to mention there that everyone at that time would say my problem was with the fuel supply and were ready to changes parts one by one until solved...which would not have happened since it was the MAF......ahh....I had driven the car without the air filter for a little while and air carried mud has blanked the sensor hot wire. Cleaned with alcohol....and presto....

LMP--thank you very much for the information and the links to the diagrams, etc.....your help is very much appreciated....i actually took the car yesterday to the dealer and spoke with the svc mgr who has been there quite some time....he suggested me let them hold the car for the day and they are gonna check the wiring behind the firewall....he said the wiring tends to kinda melt some and go in there and splice the wiring.....i have read where other people have had the same problem as well and corrected the problem by splicing the wires....i really dont know which way to go....he wouldnt recommend replacing the crankshaft sensor due to the vehicle running ok for the most part....my main point that i really miss now and then is the cruise going out.....so i am gonna ask him the cause of that and see what he says.....i plan to go out of town this weekend and would like the cruise to work for all of the trip, if you can understand!......well see what they find with the wiring and it certainly wont hurt to let them check it out.....i feel confident with the Pontiac dealership and of course that warranty that comes with parts and labor is really nice if somethings fails that they have already fixed......ill keep you posted and thanks once again for the help and the replies, it is much appreciated!

[LMP]

..as mentioned before, some error codes - even intermittent - will disable cruise. ALso, on the MAF diagram, you see the idle valve connector: I'm not aware of actual problems with this on that engine, but I know for sure that it is a common source of surge and stall problems in other makes.
Also... be sure the brake pedal switch is not loose and that the pedal fully returns to rest position, cause that switch contains several contacts, one of them specific to disable cruise when depressing pedal. (Son had that problem with his Intrepid recently). THese are very simple things, but it is prudent to clear the simple before going for the complicated....

[econdrey]

Originally Posted by LMP

..as mentioned before, some error codes - even intermittent - will disable cruise. ALso, on the MAF diagram, you see the idle valve connector: I'm not aware of actual problems with this on that engine, but I know for sure that it is a common source of surge and stall problems in other makes.
Also... be sure the brake pedal switch is not loose and that the pedal fully returns to rest position, cause that switch contains several contacts, one of them specific to disable cruise when depressing pedal. (Son had that problem with his Intrepid recently). THese are very simple things, but it is prudent to clear the simple before going for the complicated....

lmp...i had the car at the dealership today to get the oil changed and they were finally able to pull a code....they say the ERG needs to be replaced......they quoted me a $211 price.....are these things available at Advance Auto/Auto Zone?....I have no clue......are they easy to replace?....thanks once again for your replys and tips!....well see what happens on the road trip this weekend.....I also asked if this would be the cause of the cruise control quitting here and there and the guy told me no....so ill eventually get the ERG replaced and see what happens from there.....thanks once again

[econdrey]

Originally Posted by econdrey

lmp...i had the car at the dealership today to get the oil changed and they were finally able to pull a code....they say the ERG needs to be replaced......they quoted me a $211 price.....are these things available at Advance Auto/Auto Zone?....I have no clue......are they easy to replace?....thanks once again for your replys and tips!....well see what happens on the road trip this weekend.....I also asked if this would be the cause of the cruise control quitting here and there and the guy told me no....so ill eventually get the ERG replaced and see what happens from there.....thanks once again

i am also gonna add a bottle of complete fuel system cleaner to a full tank of gas this morning and then hit the road driving all day....i hope this will make a little bit of difference....well see....i certainly dont think it will hurt to do this at all, since I have no idea if its been done before...

[LMP]

I think the price you mention to be in the right bracket. THe EGR valve is well in sight, on the driver side on the front of engine compartment, covered with a plastic cap normally. I think it is bolted on an aluminum adapter. see that:
www.avigex.ca/xport/egrvalve.jpg

[econdrey]

Originally Posted by LMP

I think the price you mention to be in the right bracket. THe EGR valve is well in sight, on the driver side on the front of engine compartment, covered with a plastic cap normally. I think it is bolted on an aluminum adapter. see that:
www.avigex.ca/xport/egrvalve.jpg

thanks for the reply lmp.....i had a few problems with it cutting off on me as i was driving down the hwy, etc this weekend but would start right back up......so i just need to get the erg replaced at some point....the link you sent me to the diagram, etc. was rather messed up and i am unable to see it all.....is there any way you can resend it?......i went to print it and it was so large it cut half of it off and then when i click the link it is so small i cant see a thing.....lol....i tried to adjust the size but that only cuts the pic, etc off more......thanks again for the reply and ill let you know what happens.....

[bigboyisme]

Before spending that kind of money, I would go to a yard and get a used one and try that first. This way, if it isn't the problem, you haven't spent much to diagnose it. Either way, it still may not be the problem. It really doesn't require a bunch of effort to change it. All you need is a gasket and a wrench. It has 3 bolts holding it on and an electrical connector. Takes about 5-10 minutes to replace.

[LMP]

Originally Posted by bigboyisme

Before spending that kind of money, I would go to a yard and get a used one and try that first. This way, if it isn't the problem, you haven't spent much to diagnose it. .

I would be reluctant too to spend such an amount just to check. One other pal said he just blocked the ports of the EGR valve adaptor to see if the car would run fine. During that time, the car would probably not pass an EPA test, but from the engine point of view, it would be AOK.

p.s. I have reformatted the document into a pdf file
www.avigex.ca/xport/egrvalve.pdf

[econdrey]

Originally Posted by bigboyisme

Before spending that kind of money, I would go to a yard and get a used one and try that first. This way, if it isn't the problem, you haven't spent much to diagnose it. Either way, it still may not be the problem. It really doesn't require a bunch of effort to change it. All you need is a gasket and a wrench. It has 3 bolts holding it on and an electrical connector. Takes about 5-10 minutes to replace.

bigboyisme----thanks for the reply......who is to say the one sitting at the junk yard doesn't have the same problem as well?.....i would much rather spend the $200 and have the warranty that comes along with the part straight from the dealership......the dealership loves to give out that warranty along with the price so i reckon it goes hand in foot......thanks for the tips on how to change it etc......do you know if it is available at advance/auto zone.....i havent bothered to check.....thanks once again for the reply!

[econdrey]

Originally Posted by LMP

I would be reluctant too to spend such an amount just to check. One other pal said he just blocked the ports of the EGR valve adaptor to see if the car would run fine. During that time, the car would probably not pass an EPA test, but from the engine point of view, it would be AOK.

p.s. I have reformatted the document into a pdf file
www.avigex.ca/xport/egrvalve.pdf

lmp----thanks for the reply....down in south GA there is no such thing as an EPA test, it seems the more smoke you having coming out the tailpipe the better off you are, if you know what i mean...lol....i will give that idea a thought (of blocking the ports off) but will probably have the whole thing replaced just for sound of mind and performance wise (rough/low idling) for the car......thanks also for reformatting the erg valve pic.....that helped out a lot and came through much better and i was able to print it out....thanks for all your input.....i am new to the automotive forums web site and your help has been much appreciated.....ill keep you posted and keep asking questions as the need arises....hopefully there wont be too many more questions to arise but from the looks of the forum there is a lot of quirks with these types of cars......i feel i have a lucky one that maybe came out right along production somewhere! ha!....happy holidays and thanks once again from 'ole south Georgia!.....