Homemade Iced Intercooler?

[tekguy]

Has anyone made an intercooler that uses ice water or a recirculator pump and a radiator? I am thinking of a bundle of small diameter (1/2" to 1") tubes surrounded by cold water or even dry ice. This design would be somewhat like a boiler heat exchanger in reverse. This is for an application where limited room exists between the turbo and manifold (12-14 inch length). Also, has anyone experimented with water/methanol injection either before or after the turbo. FYI: this is a 350 Chev in a 2nd GEN Camaro

[Reed]

acutally people use water alcohol injection alot. if you have a 350 though make sure you build it to take alot of boost before you spend money on that stuff. water to air intercoolers and water/alcohol injection are far more helpful at boost pressures that are higher than a stock 350 can take.

[SaabJohan]

Water injection should be used as an "emergency solution", this as water cause corrosion just to mention one reason. Injecting water into the turbocharger can cause compressor damage if the drops are too large. Methanol is used as anti-freeze, there are in other words no reason to use methanol if you aren't running at temperatures when water would freeze, methanol only increase the cost and decrease cooling effect.

A water intercooler can be build from an intercooler core, then build a tank around it in which water is used to cool the air. The air can be feed to the intercooler as normal, but you can also connect the water where the pressurized air usually goes and take the pressurized air where the cooling air normally goes if you want to reduce the pressure loss over the intercooler, it should also be possible to use a radiator connected this way.

[psychorallyfreak]

Methanol? Like Alcohol Methanol? Not used as anti-freeze.
I like your ideas, and he's right about the whole water droplets too big thing. I'd probably used distilled water to offset this possibility.
Something I suggest, maybe, is CO2. I was flipping through one of my (import) car magazines, and I saw this ad for design engineering, and they have what they call their CryO2 system. There are three parts to this system, an intercooler sprayer (which I'm assuming you don't have an intercooler), a cryogenic fuel bar, to cool the fuel, and something that I think would fit your application, a cryogenic air intake. Kind of hard for me to explain what it is, so I'll just show you their web address: www.designengineering.com

I am in NO way associated with DEi, I just saw your post, and thought this might work for you.

Thanks for your time.

The FREAK

[SaabJohan]

Methanol (methyl alcohol) was used in water as an anti-freeze when water injection was used in the WW2 airplanes because of the low temperatures at high altitude. The cooling properties of water is much better than of methanol.

[psychorallyfreak]

My mistake. I'm sorry. I thought you meant anti-freeze as in cooling system, ethylene glycol anti-freeze. Didn't even think about methyl alcohol in water injection. Do I get the dumbass of the day award for that one?

[NavyFord18]

Here's an idea. air/water intercooler right, but instead of water, use something like pure ammiona. Same stuff used in your frig. just a thought.

[psychorallyfreak]

Do they really use ammonia in refrigerators? Last time I checked, they didn't. Maybe it's newer tech. since I last checked.
How's about you plumb your AC condenser into your intake tract?

[NavyFord18]

Originally Posted by psychorallyfreak

Do they really use ammonia in refrigerators? Last time I checked, they didn't. Maybe it's newer tech. since I last checked.
How's about you plumb your AC condenser into your intake tract?

Check other post, an A/C in in your intake would use more horsepower than it would give. Ammonia is used in commercial frigs. Powerful stuff.

[SaabJohan]

Actually the density increase with an A/C should give enough power to exceed the power requirement of the compressor. I also assumed that it wouldn't be the case until I looked it up.

Refrigerators usually use hydrochlorofluorocarbons and hydroflourocarbons as refrigerants. Ammonia is mostly found in industry applications because of the health risk. Ammonia is strongly corrosive and will attack humans as well, under certian conditions it's also flammable.

Water has the highest heat of vaporisation of all liquids so when it comes to that type of cooling there are no better option than water if it can be used (dependning on for example the temperature where the coolant is supposed to be used).
Water also have a high heat capacity but ammonia has one that is slightly higher, this has however little importance unless we are talking about a normal cooling system, and in any case you don't want ammonia in you car.
If you want a good cooling system use distilled water with for example red lines water wetter (glycol lower the heat capacity of the coolant).

[CBFryman]

Originally Posted by NavyFord18

Check other post, an A/C in in your intake would use more horsepower than it would give. Ammonia is used in commercial frigs. Powerful stuff.

ammonia is the positive ion isnt it? or is it ammonium? what ever it is its NH4+

[TRD2000]

i'd check out "aquamist" ..they do water and methanol injection for a lot of the WRC teams.. and a lot of other racing applications.

water isn't just injected for its cooling properties, and an advantage i see in methanol is not only does it help cool but it burns and you're not putting water through your system... although the corrosion thing is negligable when you consider that the water you put through with an injection system is probably less than what is in the air you're sucking through.. particularly on humid days... you didn't think the filter took that out did you?

water injection can be used to reduce pinging or knocking assosciated with crappy fuels, or high boost levels... your intercooler won't.

lots of people have got intercoolers that use recirculated water and a radiater... they're known as Water/Air intercoolers and i think they were used before air/air....not sure though... they have been fitted stock to lots of cars too.. celica GT4's and my neighbours legacy GT use them...

the dry ice thing is cool... the way i saw it used was right after the filter on the intake... id rather use it after the turbo... but it would have to get new ice (probably involving taking it out and forming the ice inside it... every time you wanted to use it...

[SaabJohan]

Originally Posted by TRD2000

i'd check out "aquamist" ..they do water and methanol injection for a lot of the WRC teams.. and a lot of other racing applications.

water isn't just injected for its cooling properties, and an advantage i see in methanol is not only does it help cool but it burns and you're not putting water through your system... although the corrosion thing is negligable when you consider that the water you put through with an injection system is probably less than what is in the air you're sucking through.. particularly on humid days... you didn't think the filter took that out did you?

water injection can be used to reduce pinging or knocking assosciated with crappy fuels, or high boost levels... your intercooler won't.

lots of people have got intercoolers that use recirculated water and a radiater... they're known as Water/Air intercoolers and i think they were used before air/air....not sure though... they have been fitted stock to lots of cars too.. celica GT4's and my neighbours legacy GT use them...

the dry ice thing is cool... the way i saw it used was right after the filter on the intake... id rather use it after the turbo... but it would have to get new ice (probably involving taking it out and forming the ice inside it... every time you wanted to use it...

The corrosion problem caused by water injection is not negligable. The increased humidity,as are not seen without water injection cause corrosion, this is well known. It also tend to break loose parts of soot. Furthermore it decreases cylinder pressure and combustion speed decreasing output and increasing fuel consumption; higher power output will only be given if for example boost and spark advance are increased.

Methanols cooling properties aren't as good as water, and methanol won't burn, and if it do burn a part of the fuel will not burn instead as the amount that can be burned are limited by the oxygen content in the cylinder. Methanol also give its own corrosion problem, for example it attacks the system that deliver it and the material in the engine, after combustion the combustion products contains acids that will attack for example exhaust manifolds, turbochargers and so on.