automatic Vs manual

u fool · #1 07-22-2004, 11:23 AM

how are manual transmisions better then automatics when it comes to racing

eclipsed4utoo · #2 07-22-2004, 07:55 PM

faster shifting when the drive knows how to drive. also you have more drivetrain loss with the automatics. if you have the same car, one manual and one automatic, the manual will win b/c it puts the power to the ground more efficiently than an automatic does.

BackseatJesus · #3 07-28-2004, 12:47 AM

In a sense of racing...Instant throttle response, you don't need to wait for overdrive to kick in, and as stated before a manual transmission would put more power to the wheels, and assuming how you drive shorter shift gaps... In terms of the sportronic, you have an advantage with the instant throttle response and less shift gap when shifting but still less horsepower so in the end you will mainly lose if both are stock. IE. the Eclipse GS has 145 hp to the wheels with an auto where-as with the manual its 154 hp...

johnnyBgood · #4 07-28-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackseatJesus

the Eclipse GS has 145 hp to the wheels with an auto where-as with the manual its 154 hp...

That statement is incorrect. The Fed Spec(00-01) 3G RS/GS are rated for 154hp. At the wheels, that is 120whp for the manual and 109whp for the autos. The cali-spec (01+) 3G's are rated for 147hp. The manuals dyno 114whp and the auto's dyno 103whp.

BackseatJesus · #5 07-29-2004, 02:01 AM

There ya go man...

Shpyder · #6 07-30-2004, 04:45 AM

I disagree with the "manuals are faster" statement. In a straight line with equal specs, an automatic is quicker than stick. The only issue comes with downshifting on curves...the computer does not know when you want a specific gear to downshift and for how long to hold it. My cousins 99 Galant GTZ is a V6 auto. It is rated at 195hp. He raced a friend's GS-T Eclipse, stick, rated at 210 hp. Both cars stock. Straight line race, the GTZ was quicker.

FIGG · #7 07-30-2004, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shpyder

I disagree with the "manuals are faster" statement. In a straight line with equal specs, an automatic is quicker than stick. The only issue comes with downshifting on curves...the computer does not know when you want a specific gear to downshift and for how long to hold it. My cousins 99 Galant GTZ is a V6 auto. It is rated at 195hp. He raced a friend's GS-T Eclipse, stick, rated at 210 hp. Both cars stock. Straight line race, the GTZ was quicker.

It also depends on the driver no?the guy drivin the stick probably didnt know what hewas doin..I've never seen a car with more hp bein stick gettin run by an auto with less Hp..doesnt make sense...

94tegRS · #8 07-30-2004, 04:58 AM

sorry sphyder but you dont kbnow what you are talking about, a catr wiht the same exact specs everywhere except for the trannies, the stick will win with a competent driver, wana know why?

well, think about it, you got 5 gears in your manual(most of the time, I know theres more nowadays and fewer in old days) in an auto it is usually 4, so the gears are spread out way farther. so when you shift in your manbual the RPMS dont drop at all as far as thewy do when your automatic shifts. not to mention if you can drive you can shift your manual fatsre than the car can shift its own auto, that is the case mostly, you could get a shift kit, or your car can come with an auto that shifts pretty quick stock, but that doesnt aleways happen.

people al;ways think autos are faster bvecause of "the auto can shift faster than the driver ever could" which for one is total BS abnd 2 that has noything to do with it in reality. for the most part the higher you rev the more power you got, and the lower the gear is, the more your power gets multiplied, so a manula keeps the revs up and you got the lower ratio helping you out also.

Shpyder · #9 07-30-2004, 05:40 AM

The time it takes for the driver to push the clutch. Get the gear out. Stick it up or down. Release the clutch. Time clutch release with throttle. Your telling me this is faster than the ECU shifting in a straight line race? As I said, autos are faster in drag races. I dont know what I'm talking about? You dont know what your on about. ECU's have a lot to do with shifting....my 99 Galant GTZ's ECU allowes peak RPM to be mainined as long as you foot is on the throttlle and even redline...my 99 Accord peaks and then changes immediatly, and its ECU rarely allows the car to redline. Ever been to a drag race or looked inside those hotrods? No gear stick, instead you see buttons on the steering wheel like in F1 cars, which are enhanced sportier versions of the new "trip-tronic" crap. Downshifting is where the problems begin, but straight line, a good auto will do it. Ever seen an S500 Benz? They dont make that in manual. That V12 is rated at about 400+ horses, and will smoke the pants off TT Supras and TT ZX's. Sure it wieghs a ton, but its fast.
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/378297

check out the videos there and then let me know why that Benz whipped the sht out of that TT Supra.

Either all autos youve driven are shitty and dont shift for sht, or you dont know how to race autos. I only drive stick, but to say that a good auto isnt a match for stick, uh uh, i dont think so.

FIGG: HP rating are magical numbers that ricerboys think will automatically declare their ride faster than one with less HP. Horsepower says almost NOTHING about what your car can do on the track.

johnnyBgood · #10 07-30-2004, 02:38 PM

Seriously, the stick in the 3G's is faster than the manuals. It takes the ECU in the 3G .6 seconds to shift. I know for a FACT is does not take that long to shift in a manual unless you are lost in the gears. Now when you begin to mod the tranny, like adding a re-calibrated valve body, you drop the shift time to .2 seconds. That is a massive improvement, and it will be hard for ANY driver to shift that fast as consistently as a computer can do.

You cannot make a blanket statement about all cars pertianing to the auto tranny. The F1 cars use a tip-tronic tranny, have 7 gears, and over 900whp. Far different than any Galant or Eclipse auto.

Nor can you make a blanket statement about the manuals. Some people are inherently faster at shifting than others. Some may have more experience at powershiting. It all depends on the manual driver. But see my above statement. But then, sporty tranny's come into play where you can decide what gear you want the car to be in. For an autoX track, I would choose the sporty with recalibrated valve body.

Another fact to be aware of. In my auto 3G, there is a system called the ATS. This system recognizes when the car is being driven at high rpm's and keeps the transmission in a lower gear to keep rpm's up and throttle response and acceleration fast. It will not upshift until rpm's drop below a certain point or the throttle has been released for a certain amount of time.

94tegRS · #11 07-30-2004, 05:20 PM

sure you can modify automatics to shift fast, my friends MX6, he thought there was something wrong with it, the kid he got it from said he had a shift kit in it, but when that thing shifted it shifted HARD and FATS, it would squeal shifting to 2nd and it was an auto. but the stock ones are not like that, and sure when you write this- "push the clutch. Get the gear out. Stick it up or down. Release the clutch. Time clutch release with throttle." makes it sound like it can take time, but in reality I have it in the next gear before you even typed in those first 2 letters, propbably before that. I know for damn sure im shifting faster than .5 seconds I bet is between .2-.4, and consistently too. and that is a problem wiht alot of autos, what you dsaid, they dont allow you to redline, my mustangs auto shifted like 600 rpms early even when the foot was to the floor, and it didnt revhgih at all and had TALL gears, so when it shifted that early it dropped the revs down real far in a hella tall gear and the car just hit a wall for a second or so each time it shifted. but if I held the stck in first and threw it into 2nd at the right time, it wouldnt be so noticeble, but shifted slower that way. I known that that tranny sucked and there are much better ones out there, but when the auto is top a 4 cylinder, a 5 speed SHOULD always win. once you have v8's or even V12's where you got a TON of torque no matter where the needles sitting it doesnt hurt it as much to have a automatoic.

plus I NEVER said a GOOD auto wasnt a match for a stick, but a stock auto is gonna have a hell of a time trying, especially in cars with out so much power. and you know I dont care aout HP figuress much, "HP sells the cars, torque wins the races"

johnnyBgood · #12 07-30-2004, 09:32 PM

One other thing to consider is the final drive ratio. The 3G manual has a final drive of 3.73 i believe, whereas the auto has a final drive of 4.04. There is alot of factors when it comes to racing and everything must be taken into consideration.

Shpyder · #13 07-31-2004, 12:34 AM

Hmmm...you know guys, I just think it was a bad question. Too many other factors. What kind of auto is the guys talking about? What kind of stick shifter? etc... too many holes, so i guess theres no answer to this post huh. kinds like " I have 200 HP integra will it beat an eclipse?" (what mods on the integ, auto/stick? what kind of eclipse? what mods on eclipse? etcetc etc.

94tegRS · #14 07-31-2004, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shpyder

Hmmm...you know guys, I just think it was a bad question. Too many other factors. What kind of auto is the guys talking about? What kind of stick shifter? etc... too many holes, so i guess theres no answer to this post huh. kinds like " I have 200 HP integra will it beat an eclipse?" (what mods on the integ, auto/stick? what kind of eclipse? what mods on eclipse? etcetc etc.

you nailed it.

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