He was right last time....

[taranaki]

I hope he's wrong this time.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1083862.htm

[blindside.AMG]

I think it will probably depend on how this whole situation in Falluja is handled.

[Cbass]

Fallujah is in northern Iraq, in the Sunni area of Iraq. The real issue brewing here is that the Shiite muslims, who attempted to rise up against Hussein after the gulf war, who supported the US invasion of Iraq, and who have been calling for turning over power to the Iraqi people since this time last year, have begun fighting the US as well.

Take whoever's opinion you want to, Bush's camp saying it's just an isolated incident, reports coming in that US troops have been run out of 3 towns in southern Iraq already, that there is already a definite cooperation between Sunni and Shiite insurgents, etc...

Either way, it's certainly not looking pretty, but who knows, this may unite the Sunni and Shia peoples with a common goal... Killing as many Americans as they can in Iraq. Then there would be some hope for a democratic Iraq.

[justacruiser]

Despite it being a stupid way to do it, you think this might be an actual planned way to get our troops out of the country? Or this is being caused by a 'quiet' thinning out of the troops there? June 30 isn't too far away...

Meanwhile the Iraquis are working together for once... Far fetched, but you never know with politics. It took fighting another countrys occupation for the 13 colonies here to finally come together.

This might be a good thing if the troops give a few good feints and back out slowly. It's certainly better than the mass retreating there was during the fall of Saigon, that was a friggin disaster if there ever was one.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

This might be a good thing if the troops give a few good feints and back out slowly. It's certainly better than the mass retreating there was during the fall of Saigon, that was a friggin disaster if there ever was one.

A disaster for the American administration,a victory for Vietnamese self-determination.Hopefully,Iraq will be allowed to run its own affairs without undue interference again soon.Face it,they're never going to tolerate a puppet government.

[T4 Primera]

I don't think Mr Blix's use of the term "civil war" is the best choice of words considering the Iraqis are fighting a foreign occupation.

He applauded Secretary of State Colin Powell for having the honesty to recognise last week that the evidence on Iraq's weapons programs he presented to the UN Security Council in February 2003 was wrong.

"He has made amends ... that is not the case with Cheney and Rumsfeld," Dr Blix said.

Tell it to the families of the dead. From what I've read, many in the military used to consider Powell a soldier's man right up until he delivered the case for war to the UN, now the same people consider him a sell-out.

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by taranaki

A disaster for the American administration,a victory for Vietnamese self-determination.Hopefully,Iraq will be allowed to run its own affairs without undue interference again soon.Face it,they're never going to tolerate a puppet government.

North Vietnamese. I get the feeling that the southerners didn't really give a shit either way, just so long as something ran right. Although with the number of them trying to escape to america afterwards, It seems like they didn't favor being taken over by their northern brothers.

We'll see how this pans out. Maybe, just maybe, for ONCE, these people will work with each other afterwards for the greater good instead of starting the slaughter deciding, 'which sect of our religion is right and should rule' again. I hope so, it'd save the world a huge amount of trouble.

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by Cbass

Either way, it's certainly not looking pretty, but who knows, this may unite the Sunni and Shia peoples with a common goal... Killing as many Americans as they can in Iraq. Then there would be some hope for a democratic Iraq.

Do you see killing as many Americans as they can a good thing? Unless I am reading it wrong It sounds like it from this post.

[Cbass]

Originally Posted by DGB454

Do you see killing as many Americans as they can a good thing? Unless I am reading it wrong It sounds like it from this post.

No, that's not what I mean. They're going to kill as many Americans as they can, be they military, "civilian security contractors" (read: ex military, usually ex special forces, currently mercenaries), or civilians employed in reconstruction, that's a given. Now it seems that the two opposed sects in Iraq are working together, united by a common goal.

America's situation in Iraq is impossible, it can't be maintained indefinately, and it can't be improved. Perhaps once the US leaves, the Sunni and Shiites will be able to coexist peacefully, maybe even forming a coalition government.

[DGB454]

Good. I didn't want to believe that you could stoop as low as calling killing people a good thing.

I did hear something interesting on NPR the other day, One of the leaders of the Arab League was talking about the recently cancelled League of Arab Nations meeting. He said the League is in trouble due to all the infighting between Arab People. It sounded as if this has been going on for some time.
He also made a remark about Iraq stating that if Iraq does become a Democracy that it may usher in a new era of peace between Arab nations. Something like that anyway. It sounded as if the Arab nations don't quite stick together or get along as well as some people think. I beleive that no matter what happens in Iraq the Sunni and Shiites will never really get along. I think they need someone to hate and fight with. Their focus is just temporarily on the same thing at the moment.

[Flatrater]

I have a question for you guys its alittle off topic but here goes!!

If Hans Blix knew along that Iraq had no WMD why did he stay on collecting a pay check trying to find something that didn't exist?

Also who was responsible in giving the US bad info on these WMD? It was an exiled Iraq leader by the name of Ahmad chalabri from what I heard.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

It was an exiled Iraq leader by the name of Ahmad chalabri from what I heard.

Yes. They supposedly got their WMD info through a supposed defector code-named "Curveball", who is supposedly the brother of one of Chalabi's top aides.

Chalabi is being groomed by Bush, and his Administration, including Bremmer, to supposedly take-over the reins of the Iraqi government come June 30.

You know what galls me?

Bush's administration is paying Chalabi and the rest of "Iraqi Governing Council", which ain't doing jack squat as of the moment - or ever, 3.5 million of our taxpayer dollars to be what they are - a figurehead. Go fucking figure. I guess they'll be friendlier to Bush family & friends oil concerns in the future huh? Oh wait...it's not about oil. Sorry, I forgot.

[YogsVR4]

Glad to hear it.

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by DGB454

I beleive that no matter what happens in Iraq the Sunni and Shiites will never really get along.

Thats funny? My grandma is a shiite muslim and my gramps is a sunni. Everyone gets along with each other. My mother is Chaldean (christian iraqi) and shes married to my father who is a sunni muslim. This is war. I understand everyone is voicing there opinions about Iraqis how much they hate them or love them. They're only defending there country. So understand that. About those four civilians bein mutilated. Well thats very un-islamic.Most Iraqi ppl dont agree of what they've done. It is not in there nature.They are very respectable ppl.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by Cbass

America's situation in Iraq is impossible, it can't be maintained indefinately, and it can't be improved. Perhaps once the US leaves, the Sunni and Shiites will be able to coexist peacefully, maybe even forming a coalition government.

Well, it's a nice thought but wishful thinking.
Much of the fighting by the Iraqis is not just to force the Americans out. Various Iraqi factions are beginning their civil war right now. They are jockeying for position and using their malitias to get as superior a position as they can, right now, in preparation for conflicts between themselves.
They have already anticipated the Americans departure.
The sad thing is that many people knew this civil war would happen, as soon as Hussein left the scene, whether it was through military defeat assasination etc. In a way, the Americans made the inevitable arrive a lot sooner. Hussein was a murdering bastard,( and I do not excuse his behaviour) but at least his dictatorship kept the country together

It's happened before. Ever heard of a man named Tito and a little place called Yugoslavia? When he died, the place went to hell.