1998 park ave - no start

[giffholmes]

1998 Buick Park Avenue V6-3800 3.8L VIN K SFI

No start... Always did before!! Starter justs whines.
Check engine light is on but scan tool shows 'no codes'.

Replaced starter. No change.

Fresh battery shows 13.68 volts with tester.
Onboard diagnostic display shows battery at 10.3 volts???

Ignition module?????

Please help!!

TIA
Giff

[GMMerlin]

Are you checking the battery in the car or out?
If the battery voltage is 13 outside the car and 10 when it is installed, you have a voltage drop somewhere.
Check the battery cables for corrosion. Especially the positive cables. This is usually where I find most of my low voltage problems on these vehicles.

[giffholmes]

Originally Posted by GMMerlin

Are you checking the battery in the car or out?
If the battery voltage is 13 outside the car and 10 when it is installed, you have a voltage drop somewhere.
Check the battery cables for corrosion. Especially the positive cables. This is usually where I find most of my low voltage problems on these vehicles.

Yes.. I've checked the battery in and out of the car. I also tried another battery that I know is good. Cables are fine as well. I've traced good voltage to the battery terminal on the starter. The starter bench tested fine.

I don't think the middle terminal on the starter is getting 12 volts when the key is turned.

Where does the PCM get its voltage reading from? Could the ignition module be shorted out? How can I test it?

Thanks very much for your reply
Giff

[GMMerlin]

Lets get back to basics here.
What exacly is the car doing or not doing? Is this an "engine spins and will not start" or a "I turn the key and nothing happens" problem?
If this is an engine spins and wont start problem, you need to look at what is missing...spark,fuel,compression and air...We will assume that you have air (unless you stopped breathing )
Determining what is missing will narrow the diagnostic process down and save you some money (since you already dropped some change on a starter)
One other question is have you had a coolant leak that you cant find, filled the radiator and coolant jug up now it wont start? If so, you may have hdro locked your engine...(dont worry no damage, just a simple repair)

Lets start with some of the basics and I will try to help you along.

[giffholmes]

Thanks for sticking with me on this GMMerlin.... Here goes..

Car had been a hard start for a couple of weeks before it quit. It always started right up, now you had to grind and even pump it to get it going. It cranked strongly. Checked plugs and codes, no problems??

Driving Saturday on interstate 'check engine' comes on, car stumbles, misses but keeps going. Went home and it sits for 2 hours. When I try to start it later, starter clicks... no start.

I checked battery voltage and connections, all ok. Changed to another battery anyway, no help.

Put in new starter, still no help, but the starter wheel spins but won't engage crank..

'Check engine' light still on.. voltage on diagnostic display about 10 volts.

Coolant level was low... took almost a gallon to top off. What's this "hydro lock"?

Giff

[GMMerlin]

Coolant level was low... took almost a gallon to top off. What's this "hydro lock"?

These model cars have a plastic upper plenum (the black intake) they will leak internally into the intake over time. If you find that you need to fill up your cooling system but find no leaks, thats where the coolant is going.
On the back of the plenum you will see where the brake booster vacum hose plugs in. There is a squeeze connector. remove that and see if you see coolant come out of that hole. Then remove the sparkplugs and see if you have coolant come out of the plug holes....if so...HYDRO-LOCKED.
To fix the problem, you will need to replace the upper plenum, remove the coolant from the intake runners and cylinders, replace the plugs and change the oil.

[GMMerlin]

Also, if the SES light came on, it should have stored a trouble code. Most likely with what you described, it should have set a 300 series code.

[giffholmes]

I use an Actron Global OBD II AutoScanner - CP9135.
It shows no codes...

Check engine light is on..

I will check for hydro-lock tonite.

Thanks for your help
Giff

[giffholmes]

Pulled plugs on engine.... plugs all wet, water runs out!! dreaded HYDRO-LOCK

So I've ordered the upper intake manifold from gmpartsdirect (#17113136) and will replace it and the plugs.

Replacement looks straightforward enough to me... what's the best way to clean the top of the engine. Just rags? Should I be looking for any other damage or problems?

Thanks again GMMerlin for all your help...

Giff

[GMMerlin]

If you have a shop vac, use it to suck the coolant out of the intake and runners (I have made an adapter to fit inside the intake runners and even will go into the sparkplug hole to get the coolant out of the cylinders).
Spin the engine over by hand to force as much water out of the cylinders you can.
After you get everything back togather, leave the plugs out and disconnect the injector harness. Spin the engine over a couple times to get the rest of the water out.
Put everthing back togather and start it up....it will smoke out the exhaust for a while (until the coolant burns off inside the converter).

Glad I could help....Good Luck.

[J J]

merlin - I had a horrible experience with hydro lock. Ended up costing be $3,000. Had upper plenum (intake) replaced with new design, new lower intake, new head gaskets ONLY to find that when they started it back up it bent a piston shaft. they tore it all apart again (3 times now) replaced that and started it back up and it missed. Now it needed a new valve. So...........I cut my losses and put a new engine in it. I spent $1,500 on an engine that is NOW sitting in a junk yard, and $1,500 on a new engine. In retrospect, had I gone to the mechanic right when I notice coolant disappearing, it would have been as simple as what you describe here.

[J J]

Merlin - I just wanted to say thanks so much for the help you give everyone regarding our cars. I had a 95 PA that I had a horrible experience with hydrolock with the 3800 engine. I have a chance to get a beautiful 98 PA. I need your help. What is your professional opinion of the 3800 engine? Should I be hesitant about getting another one?? Thanks again for all your fantsatic advice!!!
Mike [email protected]