springs and shocks for 95 Integra

[unsure]

I'm looking to get new springs and shocks on my car. For springs, i'm debating b/w Eibach Pro-Kit (drop=1.3F, 1.3R)or their sport-lines (drop=1.7F, 1.7R)& b/w h&R Sports Spring (drop=1.75F, 1.5R). I'd like the pro & cons b/w these springs. I'm wondering if a 1.3 inch drop is really noticeable visually and whether a drop of 1.75 is too low. For struts i'm looking at the tokico Illumina although i'd like someone 2 clarify what they mean by adjustability. I won't be auto-x'ing or drag racing, but i'd like improved handling ,looks & maintain a close as possible quality 2 stock ride, but not hit bump's all day. I'd appreciate any suggestions and ideas especially from Dezoris since he knows alot abt this. thanks

[Dezoris]

Well you have some good questions there

What is the best option? You made your point that you won't be doing any racing, so IMO your need for adjustablity is a waste.
And the adjustabilty is merely a novelty on the Tockicos, it controls your shocks rebound, which menas after the the shock compresses, the higher the setting the faster it rebounds, that is the way the adjustment works, most have 5-7 settings or clicks, and the best out of the box adjustable is the Koni yellow, but even Koni recommends leaving it the factory middle setting and they say it is almost never necessary to set it to firm. Now without babling, to much there have been times when this adjustablity comes in handy, namely to control under or oversteer in some ways. But for your purposes, since you are going no adjustable or would consider that (and just leave it alone), the options are here

The first recommendation for comfort and for your use is
http://www.bilstein.com/products/general.html

and these springs, Neupseed sport springs

I have driven many civics with these setups, actaully I picked it out for a friend and I was amazed at how composed the car was, actually felt smoother than stock but, more aggressive and capable at higher speeds, killed a lot of roll, these would be good for track use as well and you'll only spend about 600-800, at SHOX.com.
another shock spring combos that I consider rather rough for everyday driving but rather track worthy if you can find the balence is
the koni sport

and one of these two springs
Nuespeed sport/soft sport
or Eibach prokit
and H&R sprints/components are highly under used and provide a great ride, there stuff can be had at tire rack

Prokit

Tockico HP


These setups will still require camber kits and alignments. Also regardless of the setup I would highly, highly recommend, you take a good look at the cars front end, tie rods/ends, ball joints, control arms, bushings, drive shafts, cv joints, wheel bearings. Because any setup that requires making the suspension lower and stiffer is going to put a lot of stress on those old parts, and before you know it, you have great shocks and springs and a car that creaks, cracks, and is really unsafe. So I would take some of that budget and hold about 3-500 for repairs.

And a lot of people leave out H&R, but they have one of the best balanced race setups, and are proven on Hondas and acuras, namely the Type R,

http://www.hrsprings.com/site/products/coilovers.html

Ok so here it is for soft smooth ride
1.)Pro kit/Koni Red or Tockico HD
2Nuespeed soft sport/Bilstein sport/Tockico Illuminas/Koni Red
3.)H&R sport/Bilstein Sport/Tockico HD/koni red


For more sport
Combine any of those springs with or upgrade springs to
Eibach Sportlines/Neupeed Race/H&R Race
The most comfortable will be with the Bilstein, the siffer feeling shock being the Koni
Bilstein sport/Nesupeed Race (Most comfortable)
Koni Yellows/H&R Race/Eibach sportlines (most stiff)

I would always use the Eibachs with either the koni reds or yellows.

[Dezoris]

One more thing the whole thing with Bilstein sports are that they are self adjusting which is great!! Based on speed and conditions they sense impending load and adjust based on that. that is why they maintain such a smooth ride, until you get nuts

[unsure]

Dezoris, thanks again for your sound advice, i really appreciate it, especially for taking the time to get pictures and hyperlinks. I'm thinking of what you initially said, which is getting the neuspeed sport-lowering springs/blisten sport shocks. I've researched and have seen that people like the springs and these shocks. However, i'd like to know how much of a drop the neuspeed sports give? Would it be possible 2 get this setup b/w $500-$650 if i shopped around? Again thanks and i'll also save money for the things u told me 2 keep an eye out for.

[drift]

Originally posted by Dezoris
Well you have some good questions there

What is the best option? You made your point that you won't be doing any racing, so IMO your need for adjustablity is a waste.
And the adjustabilty is merely a novelty on the Tockicos, it controls your shocks rebound, which menas after the the shock compresses, the higher the setting the faster it rebounds, that is the way the adjustment works, most have 5-7 settings or clicks, and the best out of the box adjustable is the Koni yellow, but even Koni recommends leaving it the factory middle setting and they say it is almost never necessary to set it to firm. Now without babling, to much there have been times when this adjustablity comes in handy, namely to control under or oversteer in some ways. But for your purposes, since you are going no adjustable or would consider that (and just leave it alone), the options are here

a couple of corrections:

Tokico Illuminas, their only adjustable strut, is both rebound AND compression adjustable.

Koni Yellows are bump and rebound adjustable.

lastly, if you consider the Eibach Pro-kits, a very good street spring, IMO, you should probably opt for the KYB AGX struts. KYB and Eibach have teamed up to provide a matching kit with Pro-kits and AGX struts. the price is also very hard to beat. if you're leery about the durability of AGX struts, realise that Tanabe uses AGX struts in their Pro SS coilover lineup.

adjustable struts are very worthy for the street. especially in the realm of standard travel struts, adjustability can make or break it's streetability. standard travel on lowered springs can cause you to fully compress the strut piston when hitting any bumps on a street that ususally arent found on a race course. "hittin the bumpstops" not only negatively affects your handling, but also endagers the life of your strut seals. with an adjustable strut, you can usually change the bump, compression, and rebound settings to help prevent bottoming out, plus control the spring to prevent bounce.

prefer a stiffer ride? you can tune your struts for a stiffer ride. prefer a smoother ride? tune them for that, too. if you get non-adjustable, you're stuck with the ride that the combination provides. considering the price of AGX struts, (about $300-350 a set) you may as well get them and be able to tailor your ride to your tastes.

[Dezoris]

Yes AGX are very good too, and I forgot to mention them, but as he said he is not to concerned with adjustablity, if he was then we'd be talking coilover kits, etc.

But now that you mention it the Illuminas do not have a separate adjustment for compression and rebound, only one clickable dial similar to the Koni yellows, It may infact adjust both rebound and compression to together something the Koni does not, but like I said this adjusabilty is not necessary for what he wants? A minimal drop and some sport shocks, thats it. The reason I am not a big fan of adjustable shocks is because, if you want adjustablity, it needs to be interchangeable, IMO to get everything tuned right. Or you are just guessing, so to take the guess work out, you just get a straight shock spring combo, or if you go with more of an agressive spring, sportier shocks are needed, like the adjustables, but kept at the factory setting.

If you are going race, you want
hight adjustability
rebound adjustablity
compression adjustability
camber adjustabilty
caster adjusabilty

No out of the box shock has all these features.
It is also hard to find in a kit under $2,000 with all of that.
So this is something to consider.
What do you want?

[Dezoris]

Originally posted by unsure
Dezoris, thanks again for your sound advice, i really appreciate it, especially for taking the time to get pictures and hyperlinks. I'm thinking of what you initially said, which is getting the neuspeed sport-lowering springs/blisten sport shocks. I've researched and have seen that people like the springs and these shocks. However, i'd like to know how much of a drop the neuspeed sports give? Would it be possible 2 get this setup b/w $500-$650 if i shopped around? Again thanks and i'll also save money for the things u told me 2 keep an eye out for.

Yes you can get the Neuspeed soft sport and the Bilstein sports at
www.shox.com
800-683-2890
Ask for Chris, tell him Mark Sanew sent you, (the guy with the Kmac problems)
I bought a ton of shit from him, so he'll be fair. Ask him for prices, I bet you'll be under 500$ or around that.

[drift]

the illuminas are single knob adjustable for compression and rebound.

http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/car/adjustable.html


the main reason why i stress adjustable, is if he gets a single rate strut and doesnt like the handling, he can just adjust it or have someone adjust it for him to get him the ride quality he prefers... which is much more cost effective than having to buy a different strut.

all our opinions on a certain subject as objective as ride feel can and will be different... what we may perceive as tolerable may give someone a hernia. plus the price of a good adjustable strut, like KYB AGX, is minimal... $300-350 for a set of 4 AGX struts, toss in springs and he can definitely make his cost requirement. even the most expensive spring, the Pro-kit, will have him sittin at no more than $580 altogether, WITH shipping at www.coximport.com

i think your best bang for the buck would be the AGX/Pro-kit combo for a street setup. you can adjust it to obtain your desired feel/comfort level, and the pro-kits will give you a nice lowered stance, but not too low to where you'll scrape everything, and will within themselves provide a smooth, stock-like ride.

but if you like an even lower stance, H&R or Neuspeed springs are an option, along with Eibach Sportline... all having a harsher ride, but will be tamed well by the AGX struts due to it's adjustability allowing you to maintain a smoother ride.

[Dezoris]

The AGX can't be re-valved, like the Bilstein sports, nor can the Illuminas, or am I incorrect?

[drift]

Originally posted by Dezoris
The AGX can't be re-valved, like the Bilstein sports, nor can the Illuminas, or am I incorrect?

the AGX can be revalved.

the illuminas can too.

both can also have all three (bump, compression, and rebound) adjustments added by a competent shock rebuilder.


the KYB AGX strut has been picked up by Tanabe as the strut for their Pro-SS coilovers due to their design, efficiency, and price.

[Dezoris]

Well then you would agree that the adjustments on these out of the box shocks are not all they are cracked up to be for a normal user?

And you can see why I highly recommend a self adjusting shock like the Bilstein sport?

[drift]

Originally posted by Dezoris
Well then you would agree that the adjustments on these out of the box shocks are not all they are cracked up to be for a normal user?

And you can see why I highly recommend a self adjusting shock like the Bilstein sport?

no, because the adjustments are designed for normal street use. revalving would be for individuals who prefer to race their cars, under conditions much more extreme than what would be encountered on the street.

[drift]

a self adjusting strut cannot adjust for rebound. when using a lowered spring, the standard piston length strut like a Bilstein will have a tendency to bottom out. the compression may become tighter due to auto valving, but due to bottoming out from a lowered spring, the rebound is not auto adjust, and will still provide that "ricer bounce" once the spring starts to rebound.

in the case of a tighter spring with standard height, it wont hit the bumpstops by maintaining factory travel and height. but with the tighter spring, again, rebound becomes an issue and the car will bounce.

in comparison to a stock type strut, the car wont bounce as much considering the ability to adjust for compression, but the rebound will overpower an auto valving strut in most cases.

auto valving doesnt mean it's better than an external adjustable on the street.

i dont see how your line of reasoning would make an external adjustable street strut less streetable than an autovalve shock... especially since all of the struts mentioned are designed for street applications, not racing.

[Dezoris]

Originally posted by drift



no, because the adjustments are designed for normal street use. revalving would be for individuals who prefer to race their cars, under conditions much more extreme than what would be encountered on the street.

No I mean the adjustments on the Koni, KYB, Illumina, out of the box are not all that they are cracked up to be for an inthusiest.
Personally I think only having the abilty to adjust rebound, or both at the same time is rather useless. I would much rather have the shocks revalved. That is waht I am asking is your opinion, on that.

[Dezoris]

Originally posted by drift
a self adjusting strut cannot adjust for rebound. when using a lowered spring, the standard piston length strut like a Bilstein will have a tendency to bottom out. the compression may become tighter due to auto valving, but due to bottoming out from a lowered spring, the rebound is not auto adjust, and will still provide that "ricer bounce" once the spring starts to rebound.

in the case of a tighter spring with standard height, it wont hit the bumpstops by maintaining factory travel and height. but with the tighter spring, again, rebound becomes an issue and the car will bounce.

in comparison to a stock type strut, the car wont bounce as much considering the ability to adjust for compression, but the rebound will overpower an auto valving strut in most cases.

auto valving doesnt mean it's better than an external adjustable on the street.

i dont see how your line of reasoning would make an external adjustable street strut less streetable than an autovalve shock... especially since all of the struts mentioned are designed for street applications, not racing.

Mainly because, I don't think there is a gray area.
You either go race or street, which kinda explained in the previous post, about single adjustables.
Another thing here is road conditions, I should take a video of where I drive daily, and you'd shit yourself, even a GS400 would transmit a nasty feeling in the cabin. I think most of the people in my area would ask the question, what is streetable, and also complain, that most of these single adjustables are always too stiff or to soft.