Major Maintenance - Suggestions?

[hufhouse]

I have a 2000 Montana with about 83,000 miles on it. We really like this van, and I think I'd like to keep it as long as possible. I have changed the oil as needed and never had any problem with it. Everything is in good working order. I recently had the thermostat changed, but I think that's the only work we've ever needed.

We are going to be taking a couple of long trips in 2006, and I'd like to take the Montana and feel good about it. So, I was going to go ahead and spend some time and money and do major overall maintenance. Here's my list:

- Transmission fluid and filter.
- Flush and fill with new dex-cool.
- New spark plugs and wires.
- Oil and filter, PCV valve, lube.
- Air filter.
- New front brakes.
- New top and bottom radiator hoses.
- New serpentine belt.
- (Tires are good...no need to change at this time.)

Here are my questions:

1. Is there anything missing from my list that you think should be done at this point?

2. Can I change the rear spark plugs on my own? Is there any special tools needed? I've heard it's a bear. Also, is there anything else that needs changed to call this a "tune up?"

3. Does this engine have a timing belt to worry about? (I have a Saturn with a timing belt, and I've heard it's a time bomb.)

4. Should I buy a Haynes manual? I can get one on Amazon for about $15. Will it help? (Particularly with the spark plugs.)

5. Is it ok to just go get parts at AutoZone, or should I go someplace like NAPA? I've heard that you should probably spring for NAPA on stuff like radiator hoses and belts.

6. While I have stuff torn down, is there a "time bomb" part that would be inexpensive and easy to replace while I'm up to my armpits in engine?

I have moderate mechanical ability and knowledge. I have standard tools (ratchets, wrenches, screwdrivers, etc.). Under most circumstances, I could do all of these things with no problem. However, it looks like Pontiac built this van around the engine. As you know, there is NO room to work. If I have to start removing throttle bodies or intake manifolds, I'm afraid I might be in over my head. Unless, of course, the Haynes manual can walk me through it or something.

I will take all the advice I can get. I figure if I get a good independent mechanic to do this, I'll probably spend upwards of $800 or so. If I just go get the parts myself at Auto Zone, I could probably get away with $100 or so. I could use the other money! Plus, this might be a good chance to teach my boys a thing or two.

What do you think?

[truc0011]

I would make sure your infamous lower intake is not leaking before you start your trip!

Other than that it looks like you have the big hitters covered!

[cdru]

Originally Posted by hufhouse

- Transmission fluid and filter.
- Flush and fill with new dex-cool.
- New spark plugs and wires.
- Oil and filter, PCV valve, lube.
- Air filter.
- New front brakes.
- New top and bottom radiator hoses.
- New serpentine belt.
- (Tires are good...no need to change at this time.)

1. Is there anything missing from my list that you think should be done at this point?

For general maint., you got most of the things covered. I'd also check things like shocks for leakage as well as the battery for secure connections and no corrosion. You could also replace the cabin air filter if needed (back of the glove box).

As mention above, the lower intake manifold gasket is always a trouble spot. Just something to keep your eye out on.

2. Can I change the rear spark plugs on my own? Is there any special tools needed? I've heard it's a bear. Also, is there anything else that needs changed to call this a "tune up?"

Yes. The easiest for me is to remove the coil pack and rock the engine forward. To do that, remove the intake plenum, remove the two engine mount struts ("dog bones") on the front of the engine, then use a ratchet strap and pull the engine forward. You'll have to reach up and over the engine to get to the rear. It's a bitch, but managable. Or you can pay someone to do it but it will probably be $100-200 just for that.

3. Does this engine have a timing belt to worry about? (I have a Saturn with a timing belt, and I've heard it's a time bomb.)

Yes it has a timing belt...well...chain. It's not an issue generally and isn't something to be concerned about (knock on wood).

4. Should I buy a Haynes manual? I can get one on Amazon for about $15. Will it help? (Particularly with the spark plugs.)

It would be advised. You should be able to purchase them at most Auto Part stores. I know Advanced Auto sells them around my parts, as does Wal-Mart and Meijer stores. It should only be $15 there too, so it will save you on shipping. I would stay away from AutoZone and their AllData discs. I never liked them much. Same thing goes for Chilton's. If you look around, you can sometimes find the GM shop manuals on eBay for a decent price. I paid $35 or so for mine.

5. Is it ok to just go get parts at AutoZone, or should I go someplace like NAPA? I've heard that you should probably spring for NAPA on stuff like radiator hoses and belts.

It's a toss up. Some things you get better quality at Napa, but you also pay more. Other things it doesn't matter as much in my opinion. AutoZone has the best prices on GatorBack (GoodYear) belts in my area and I prefer them over Dayco. Generally speaking I prefer to go to Advanced Auto for my parts, but Autozone also fills in if the price is right or AA doesn't have the part. Napa is also nice for hard to find parts or something specialized. We have a distribution center in my town so they have a better selection then just a typical franchise store.

6. While I have stuff torn down, is there a "time bomb" part that would be inexpensive and easy to replace while I'm up to my armpits in engine?

Trust me, you aren't in it too deep with just the above list. The 3 "timebombs" are the intake manifold gasket, head gasket, and transmission. The last 2 happen less frequently then the first, but all three are known issues. None of the 3 though are "easy". The first two aren't real expensive (under $200 each) if you do the labor yourself.

I have moderate mechanical ability and knowledge. I have standard tools (ratchets, wrenches, screwdrivers, etc.). Under most circumstances, I could do all of these things with no problem. However, it looks like Pontiac built this van around the engine. As you know, there is NO room to work. If I have to start removing throttle bodies or intake manifolds, I'm afraid I might be in over my head. Unless, of course, the Haynes manual can walk me through it or something.

Yup. Welcome to modern minivans. Don't expect a lot of room. Having a triple jointed arm you can easily dislocate will help as well. The hardest thing you are looking at doing is the spark plugs. There are 2 bolts and 2 nuts holding the coils on via a bracket. Remove those and pull out the bracket with coils attached and you should be able to get to the rear plugs relatively easily. Just follow the Haynes manual as that's the route it takes.

Some people also suggest going up from the bottom. I have large hands and forearms, so that's not an option for me.

I will take all the advice I can get. I figure if I get a good independent mechanic to do this, I'll probably spend upwards of $800 or so. If I just go get the parts myself at Auto Zone, I could probably get away with $100 or so. I could use the other money! Plus, this might be a good chance to teach my boys a thing or two.

$800 is probably a little high. Even if you have a basic shade-tree mechanic's experience, you should be able to tackle everything. I'd wait until the weather gets warmer (if it's cold there) and spend a decent Saturday doing it. Shouldn't take more then a good day's work.

[hufhouse]

Originally Posted by truc0011

I would make sure your infamous lower intake is not leaking before you start your trip!

I've been reading a few other posts...is this the gasket that goes bad and causes coolant to leak into the oil? And they replaced the original gasket with one that works better?

OK, dumb question...I recently had someone else replace the thermostat. I went to check on his work and it looked like a bomb went off in the front of my van...part everywhere. He was pretty upset that he agreed to replace my thermostat for $30, to say the least. Would he have removed the lower intake? I thought he said something about removing some "intake" and if so, he probably didn't replace a gasket.

Would it possibly be smarter for a guy like me to pay someone to do the tuneup AND go ahead and replace that gasket at the same time...just to be safe?

The other day, I wiped about 1/8" of caramel off my oil cap. I have to add a little coolant every few months.

If I want to keep this van a long time, what do you think?

[truc0011]

Originally Posted by hufhouse

I've been reading a few other posts...is this the gasket that goes bad and causes coolant to leak into the oil? And they replaced the original gasket with one that works better?

OK, dumb question...I recently had someone else replace the thermostat. I went to check on his work and it looked like a bomb went off in the front of my van...part everywhere. He was pretty upset that he agreed to replace my thermostat for $30, to say the least. Would he have removed the lower intake? I thought he said something about removing some "intake" and if so, he probably didn't replace a gasket.

Would it possibly be smarter for a guy like me to pay someone to do the tuneup AND go ahead and replace that gasket at the same time...just to be safe?

The other day, I wiped about 1/8" of caramel off my oil cap. I have to add a little coolant every few months.

If I want to keep this van a long time, what do you think?

If you are adding antifreeze get your van in and checked out. The shop should do a pressure check and look for the leak. I bet it is the lower intake, and yes this is the gasket which can let antifreeze in your oil.

[hufhouse]

Is there any common work involved in changing the lower intake manifold gasket and changing the rear spark plugs? There is a guy across the street from my office that does good work for a good price. I am considering buying the gasket from the Pontiac dealer, buying some really good plugs and wires, and just paying him to do the work. Then, I'll do the rest of the stuff myself.

This is the same guy that changed my thermostat recently. He had quoted me $30 before he actually saw what he was getting into. I figure I OWE him one, after that!

One more question...is it possible that he already removed the lower intake manifold when he replaced the thermostat?

[truc0011]

Originally Posted by hufhouse

Is there any common work involved in changing the lower intake manifold gasket and changing the rear spark plugs? There is a guy across the street from my office that does good work for a good price. I am considering buying the gasket from the Pontiac dealer, buying some really good plugs and wires, and just paying him to do the work. Then, I'll do the rest of the stuff myself.

This is the same guy that changed my thermostat recently. He had quoted me $30 before he actually saw what he was getting into. I figure I OWE him one, after that!

One more question...is it possible that he already removed the lower intake manifold when he replaced the thermostat?

Yes it is easier to do the spark plugs when the lower intake is off. The thermostat guy should not have removed the lower intake. If he did and only charged you $30 the guy must be cracked....

[shogunl]

To do a themostat without removing the upper plenium is real piece of work. You are far better off removing the upper plenium.
If you get caramel like stuff on the oil cap probably indicates coolant leak via intake. I would get it done ASAP.

[hufhouse]

I've pretty much decided that the lower intake manifold gasket will be part of my upcoming maintenance extravaganza. And, that will be happening within the next few weeks and definitely prior to leaving the local area.

Just curious...what nasty, awful things happen from the bad lower intake manifold gasket? Right now, I'm not having any problems with temperature fluctuations, the van runs like a dream.

Also, what would be a reasonable price from a good independent mechanic to replace the gasket? How about to replace the gasket along with new plugs and wires?

[truc0011]

Originally Posted by hufhouse

I've pretty much decided that the lower intake manifold gasket will be part of my upcoming maintenance extravaganza. And, that will be happening within the next few weeks and definitely prior to leaving the local area.

Just curious...what nasty, awful things happen from the bad lower intake manifold gasket? Right now, I'm not having any problems with temperature fluctuations, the van runs like a dream.

Also, what would be a reasonable price from a good independent mechanic to replace the gasket? How about to replace the gasket along with new plugs and wires?

If the gasket fails and coolant gets into the oil, you will ruin the engine bearings. Causing the oil pressure to drop and in turn you will have to replace the engine, or rebuild it. So I wouldn't even drive the vehicle until the gasket is fixed. Especially if you pull your oil dip stick and it looks like chocolate milk........(meaning coolant in the oil)

[hufhouse]

Actually, I recently had a problem where the oil filter blew right off the engine. I haven't checked yet (I found the previous filter on the road) but I think the shop I use for oil changes used the wrong filter.

Anyway, I obviously had to replace the oil and filter about 1,000 miles ago. So far, the oil is as clean as the day I changed it. It has never looked milky.

I think the caramel-looking stuff on the cap was probably "normal" condensation and stuff. This van is mostly used by my wife for short trips to the grocery, Curves, church, etc. Generally less than five miles each way. I read somewhere that kind of use can cause a buildup of condensation and possible caramel on the cap. However, since I'm keeping this van, I would certainly rather be safe than sorry.

I feel pretty safe waiting a little while until the big day when I do all the maintenance (or at least get a part of it done by someone else and do the rest myself).

[cdru]

Originally Posted by hufhouse

I think the caramel-looking stuff on the cap was probably "normal" condensation and stuff. This van is mostly used by my wife for short trips to the grocery, Curves, church, etc. Generally less than five miles each way. I read somewhere that kind of use can cause a buildup of condensation and possible caramel on the cap. However, since I'm keeping this van, I would certainly rather be safe than sorry.

It could be. My wife is in the same boat as yours and only drives short distances usually. It never gets up to operating temp to burn off any condensation in cold weather.

If you drive it hard for say an 1/2 hour-1 hour and recheck it and the moisture is gone, then that is a good sign. Also check the PCV valve to see if there is an accumulation there. If so, there is probably more then just condensation.

The only sure way to tell is to have your oil looked at. $20 may save you $800 in unneeded labor costs.

[hufhouse]

Interesting. We just drove it two hours away on Sunday and two hours back on Monday. I'll take a look at it today.

So, if I'm going to keep this van and drive it for trips, and I DON'T have a problem right now with the gasket, should I just leave well enough alone?

[cdru]

Originally Posted by hufhouse

So, if I'm going to keep this van and drive it for trips, and I DON'T have a problem right now with the gasket, should I just leave well enough alone?

My .02 worth would be to pay the $20 and send a sample to these guys. That way you know for sure. If it's not leaking, leave it alone. If it's leaking, fix it.

[hufhouse]

Wow, that looks like a really smart $20. I bookmarked that site for the future for all my cars. Couldn't hurt!