2000 Regal LSE - starting Issue

[Matt M.]

Background:
New battery a month ago, connections are clean and tight
Replaced ignition switch 2 yrs ago.
Starter was taken off car and engages when directly hooked to a battery (month ago)

Issue:
3rd time with this issue where the car won't start. Starter won't engage when key is in crankin start position. A month ago when the battery was replaced and starter was removed and 'tested' I had 12v to the purple wire on the starter - which should prove ignition switch is still good. All lights and power inside cabin is good. When key is turned to the crankin' position all power dies inside the cabin and nothing at the starter.

I first thought it was a weak battery connection. The second time this issue happend, I tightend the positive battery post and the car started. Today - no such luck. Both posts are tight.

Again the ignition switch was replaced a two years ago, however, I do experience issues with the key position and the climate control (a/c) from turning on. After the car starts, I slightly turn the key back and the climate control will turn on. I still don't believe the issue resides within the switch. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Is there anything between the ignition swtich and silenoid on the starter? Is there something i'm missing, I'm baffled.

Thanks

[GTP Dad]

When you say you replaced the ignition switch did you replace the lock cylinder or the actual switch under the dash on the steering wheel? If you replaced the switch under the dash I would check the connections to the switch itself to make sure everything is making good contact. Also check the wires at the starter just to be certain that they are clean and not corroded or covered with oil and grime. The other possibility is the solenoid. It may be going bad and not engaging properly.

[Tech II]

Make a note of the SECURITY light, when the car won't crank over......when you turn the key to on, it should come on for 3 seconds and go out....if it stays on, you have a security problem.....Does your ignition key have a black resistor pellet on it? If yes, you have PassKey II......

The BCM reads the resistance of the key, and if ok, sends a starter enable signal to the PCM....the PCM then grounds the starter enable relay(circuit 625).....

Typical problem with this system, is the wire(s) going up the column to the lock cylinder(circuits 1074 or 1073).........over time, every time that lock cylinder is rotated, it flexes the wire and it could break inside the insulation, causing an intermittent problem....if the insulation finally breaks it won't start at all, and that SECURITY light will remain on solid.....have someone turn the key to the crank position when it won't start......feel the starter enable relay when the key is turned to the crank position, it should click....if it clicks, swap a relay...if it still clicks and doesn't crank, check for power out of the P/N switch.....also try starting in neutral......

[Matt M.]

Thank you both for the replies. I've answered your questions below and provided an update on where things are at as of today

@GTP- I only replaced the actual ingition switch and harness under the dash and up into the steering column.

@Tech II - Yes, my key has a black pellet on it. I don't remember how long the Security light was on. I will say I do hear a click under the dash before all the guages on the dash die/kill with the key in the cranking position.

UPDATE:
I had the starter tested again today (twice), it passed all tests. Battery posts were clean (new battery a month ago) cables were also clean - but I cleaned them both anyways. I also cleaned the ground connection from the battery to the body. Before i reinstalled the starter, I cleaned all the posts and I also cleaned the body of the starter b/c it grounds itself by bolting to the engine. I doubled checked the voltage down to the starter on the purple wire - 12v as expected.

Reinstalled the starter, turned the key and car started. I didn't touch ignition switch wiring under the dash. I didn't do really anything. Frankly the cleaning I did on the posts and connections under the hood wasn't really substantial, so I don't feel I can place any blame on oil and gunk.

This is my daily driver (65 mile a day work car). Tech II, funny thing - before reading your reply I did pick up a P/N switch today as well as a new cylinder lock while at the parts store today getting the starter tested. Since the car started after I reinstalled the starter, I didn't feel the reason to install these new parts.... yet.

Soooo here's what I opt'd to do instead. I wired a pigtail on to the post of the starter with the purple wire and ran it up to the top of the motor. The next time this happens I'm going start the car with a remote starter switch. (I work a white collar job, the car sits too low for me to crawl under to attach the wire prongs especially in a button down dress shirt.)

My gut tells me I haven't fixed this car yet, but at least I think I have a game plan for the next time it happens to avoid another $116 towing fee.

Tech II - if the insulaton is/does break on the wire(s) leading to the cyclinder lock. How are these replaced? Is this a harness or are these wires included with a new cyclinder lock (I haven't opened my yet).

Thanks

[Tech II]

Yes, the harness is attached to the lock cylinder.....

It is a pain in the ass to install.....most people buy a resistor equal to the resistor of their key....they then attach it to the harness under the dash....

The key is, every time you go to start your car, turn your key to on only...watch the SECURITY light...it will come on for 3 seconds and go out....then attempt to start the car...if it doesn't crank, check that relay.....

If the light stays on, and it doesn't crank, you can test the harness going up the column.....

[aleekat]

Here's what I used to bypass a Cutlass.

http://vats.likeabigdog.com/

[Tech II]

Good post by Aleekat....gives you an idea of replacing with just the resistor.....

If you decide to replace the lock cylinder, remember, you also have to buy a new key, which is added cost, $35-40.....it has to have the same resistance value as your old key.....a blank key comes with the new lock cylinder....that blank is only used as a tem plate, to cut your new key with the correct resistance.....if your wife drives your vehicle, you will need another key....now we are talking 80 bucks.....not counting the cost of the lock cylinder too....

So the resistor method is the cheapest way out...