1992 3.1 died, starts with starting fluid sprayed in intake, sort of

[Chris2007]

Started having acceleration problem a few months ago (stumbling? Kicked or whatever when attempting to accelerate over 50+ back then). Mostly remained a higher speed problem. Got worse 1.5 weeks ago. Today, Walmart battery died again. Friend jumped me, I ran it for 5 minutes, put it in gear - it gave up the ghost.

He looks at it - saw some sparking around the plugs. Pulled a plug - great long spark. Valve with cap, inner plug when depressed made a geyser of gas and you can hear the fuel pump. Fuel filter changed last week. Don't scream - wires and plugs nearly 4 years old. Sprayed starting fluid in intake, each time car would start with gas on the floor, but ran horrible and I could rev the engine, but died when I released the gas.

Disconnected battery, no change (but measured current draw, didn't seem like anything there, nothing to do with not starting, just wondering if there was a short somewhere).

Payed an idiot to replace ignition module about 3.5 years ago. Whenever it rains car won't start until I put a heat gun or spot lamp on my wiring in back of radiator/fans for a short time. No rain today though. I wish I could say that was the problem ...

Haven't tried to pull any codes yet. He visually inspected fuses and relays. I didn't check anything inside the passenger compartment yet. Nothing was added to the fuel system at all. Other then the ignition module nothing was done to this car since I got it almost 5 years ago, had 88k, now has 192'.

Any clues gang? Computer, a sensor? We're stumped for the moment. Thanks in advance.

[Tech II]

You can have a geyser and not have enough fuel pressure.....need to get a fuel gauge on that schraeder valve....

Need to check for spark on all 6 cylinders....check the vac line to the fuel pressure regulator for gas.....

Have you been losing coolant?

[jdl]

Have you given it a tune-up, recently? Also, use a gage check fuel pressure, check fuel injector pulse, engine cranking.

If it won't idle clean throttle-body and idle air system.

Check applicable trouble codes.

[Chris2007]

Originally Posted by Tech II

You can have a geyser and not have enough fuel pressure.....need to get a fuel gauge on that schraeder valve....

Need to check for spark on all 6 cylinders....check the vac line to the fuel pressure regulator for gas.....

Have you been losing coolant?

Not loosing coolant (except from places where I should be .

If you weren't getting proper fuel pressure, wouldn't the plugs be dry? I could rev the engine with the gas peddle (while ether was being sprayed in the intake).

I ordered wires and had the plugs for 2 years (!!!). I just need to throw them in, hopefully today. I'll give that a shot.

This car has how many computers? The main or only one is behind the coolant runoff, or a couple feet behind that inside the passenger compartment? Is there another controller somewhere? I have a hankering to give all that a gander. Maybe bad capacitors .

[jeffcoslacker]

Your ignition module and coil packs sit in the area you described having to force dry in order to start the engine in wet weather.

I'd start here. Trying to second guess a problem when you already have a big one is asking for confusion.

When your IM was replaced, he may have damaged a coil pack or didn't get the little gaskets that water-tight the terminals that go from the coil packs to the IM placed properly. Or they may have just fell apart from age once taken apart...I don't remember if you get new ones with a new IM...probably depends on the brand you buy.

Make sure all the connectors to the IM are solid and not missing clips or keys that hold them tight...

[Chris2007]

Originally Posted by jeffcoslacker

Your ignition module and coil packs sit in the area you described having to force dry in order to start the engine in wet weather.

I'd start here. Trying to second guess a problem when you already have a big one is asking for confusion.

When your IM was replaced, he may have damaged a coil pack or didn't get the little gaskets that water-tight the terminals that go from the coil packs to the IM placed properly. Or they may have just fell apart from age once taken apart...I don't remember if you get new ones with a new IM...probably depends on the brand you buy.

Make sure all the connectors to the IM are solid and not missing clips or keys that hold them tight...

But I'm getting spark. Doesn't that rule out ignition components?

I still have to change plugs/wires for this job. I tried to pull the computer from it's housing yesterday, removed everything and discinnected it, but it was awful stubborn. Someone told me to just keep pulling. I may try again.

Also disconnecting the fuel injector connector near the shrader valve and oil fill cap and monitoring anything happening across those 2 pins with a multimeter showed no activity. On my friend's 2005 Ford minivan the same test, with the engine running and the connector connected obviously, there was obvious activity. I'm thinking the computer, although others are telling me it's shorted injector/s, though Ican't see how I wouldn't "see" fi pulses on account of that.

[Tech II]

There is no injector harness connector near the oil fill cap.....only thing I can think of is the two wire connector for the cam sensor....

The fuel injector connector is by the alternator....

If this is multi port(big letters on top of engine), the injectors are in parallel(1-3-5, and 2-4-6)......reading the resistance with a meter should show 4 ohms....anything higher there is an open.....reading zero is a short......need a schematic to know which wires to probe....mice are known for building nests under the upper plenum and eating the harness to the injectors.....not saying this is your problem, but the ohm check could lead to that....

A shorted injector or harness, would cause too much current flow, and the injector driver in the ECM(computer), would shut down the injectors....

[Chris2007]

Originally Posted by Tech II

There is no injector harness connector near the oil fill cap.....only thing I can think of is the two wire connector for the cam sensor....

The fuel injector connector is by the alternator....

If this is multi port(big letters on top of engine), the injectors are in parallel(1-3-5, and 2-4-6)......reading the resistance with a meter should show 4 ohms....anything higher there is an open.....reading zero is a short......need a schematic to know which wires to probe....mice are known for building nests under the upper plenum and eating the harness to the injectors.....not saying this is your problem, but the ohm check could lead to that....

A shorted injector or harness, would cause too much current flow, and the injector driver in the ECM(computer), would shut down the injectors....

Ok, but at that connector would any activity be visible while cranking.

I'll slap my buddy around for telling me it was related to fi

[Tech II]

How many wires in that connector?

Will the car start if you spray carb cleaner into the intake, while someone cranks the engine?

[Chris2007]

Originally Posted by Tech II

How many wires in that connector?

Will the car start if you spray carb cleaner into the intake, while someone cranks the engine?

we didn't use carb cleaner but ether or starter fluid.

2 wires in that connector

[Tech II]

That two wire connector does not go to the injectors...

Does the vehicle start if you spray ether, and stops when you stop spraying?

Did you check for spark on all 6 cylinder?

[Chris2007]

Originally Posted by Tech II

That two wire connector does not go to the injectors...

Does the vehicle start if you spray ether, and stops when you stop spraying?

Did you check for spark on all 6 cylinder?

Haven't checked all 6, just the 1 so far. Have to take the battery to get charged today.

The car stopped running when I let off the gas. The ether got it going, had the peddle on the floor besides. I could rev the engine also, but it died when I let off on the gas.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Chris2007

saw some sparking around the plugs.

I'd be concerned about voltage leakage between spark-plug boot and the plug. Any chance the spark plug(s) are cracked?

Do you see corona light along the spark plug wires, or sparking around the plugs if you crank the engine in the dark?

[Chris2007]

Well bought a fuel pressure tester. Definitely read in excess of 40 psi. Guess it ain't the fuel pump.

Got to find time to change plugs and wires. Hopefully tomorrow.