Advice Please - DIY torque converter or transmission replacement

[dhollow2]

I apologize for the lengthy post but I'd like to get advice from the community and want to provide as much background as possible. We have a 2000 Windstar (3.8L) with 140k miles and some ongoing transmission vibrations that finally need to be addressed. I've decided to do the work myself but don't want to replace more or less than necessary.

We purchased the van from my in-laws with 116k miles on and know it's history well. It's been meticulously maintained and has never been used for towing. My in-laws never noticed any vibrations but every time they drove it over mountains at highway speed, the O/D light would flash although the dealer on multiple occasions claimed they couldn't read any codes. When we acquired the van we noticed an occasional shudder that has become a regular feature. It ranges from barely noticeable driving around town to rather severe after a few hours of highway driving. I've kept it in check by refreshing several qts of transmission fluid with each oil change but the fluid still has a burnt smell. The shudder happens above 40 mph or so and doesn't seem to be associated with gear shifts so I'm pretty comfortable that this is coming from the torque converter. There is also a subtle vibration occasionally on the 1-2 shift, 2-3 shift, and driving uphill at 20-25 mph with no associated shifting. I'm less clear on the origin of this vibration.

During a long trip last spring, the O/D light began flashing and I took it to a local transmission shop. He said that it had "some torque converter related codes" but he would have to open it up before he could tell me what it needed. He wouldn't tell me what the codes were and when I realized that he had reset the codes I didn't want to do business with him. No codes have been set since then but I recently took it to the local Ford dealer for a diagnostic and they told me it needed a torque converter. They also said it has a bad motor mount.

So my questions for the community are:
1) Do the shift related vibrations point to a transmission problem (other than the torque converter) or could the bad motor mount explain them?
2) Is it crazy to even consider only replacing the torque converter with 140k on the odometer? How likely is it that the transmission has plenty of life left in it? I've seen lots of stories about transmission failures but I wouldn't expect to see much from the folks that haven't had problems. Cost is an issue but I don't want to make a bad decision just to save some money.
3) What else should I consider replacing as long as the transmission and subframe are out? I'm planning to do all of the motor mounts and replace the subframe. The existing subframe had the ridiculous recall performed on it and needs to go. I salvaged one this past weekend for $80.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm planning on taking lots of pics and posting a write-up to the forum.

[12Ounce]

I don't think the problem is with only the torque converter. Only worn "friction packs" (stacks of alternating steel and friction-material discs) will cause the oil to color and smell ... yours obviously are well worn ... to be expected with the number of miles on the origianl tranny. I think what everyone is referring to is a torque converter by-pass clutch that is worn. This by pass clutch "locks up" the tranny input shaft at road speeds for inproved fuel economy ... and its one of the first features to fail in a worn tranny.

If it were me, I would replaced the tranny with a Ford reman unit. They come with all the new upgrades and improvements that Ford Engineering has discovered that a aftermarket shop may or may not know about ... new torque converter ... new electrics and even full of fluid. Good warranty. Not a bad price for what you get. I did this over 200k miles ago and am a very happy camper.

BTW...I did the replacement in my driveway with no hoist.

[northern piper]

I'd second the suggestion of a whole new reman'd Ford trans. Assuming all the other mechanicals are in fairly good shape, it's worth it to replace the whole trans in my opinion.

[dhollow2]

Thanks for the input. While it sounded good to think I might get away with a cheaper repair, I couldn't stomach the thought of doing all that work only to find out it didn't fix the problems. The $2000 price tag was a bit hard to swallow but I ordered the Ford transmission this afternoon. I think I've got the process mostly worked out but I'm sure I'll be asking for more advice before I'm done. I'll be doing it without a lift and I'm not planning to pull the engine.

[12Ounce]

I would think dropping the subframe down ... complete with engine ... is the easy way to go. After all it all went in, by Ford, the opposite way. That's the way I did it ... though I already had the heads off (refresh engine at same time.).

[dhollow2]

I considered doing it that way but decided the less stuff I mess with under the hood the better. Since I'm replacing the subframe I would still have to move the engine to the new subframe if I pulled it. After reading through the ALLDATA procedure it doesn't look too bad using an engine support bar.

[dhollow2]

I'm underway with the swap. I spent way too much time trying to separate the Y-pipe from the flex pipe because the bolts were rusted in place and finally ended up just cutting the flex pipe in half with a reciprocating saw since I'm replacing it anyway. I'll deal with the bolts later. I also tried unsuccessfully to disconnect the shift cable from the lever until I found 12ounce's and northern piper's advice to just unbolt the lever in another thread (thanks!). I'm about to start disconnecting the suspension components and the Alldata procedure leaves the knuckle, rotor, caliper, and drive shaft hanging from the strut. Question for the forum: Is this too much weight to hang off the strut or will the spring protect from overextending the strut? The strut is designed to work under compression and it just seems like a lot of weight to hang on it? Should I put a spring compressor on the spring to limit the strut travel?

[northern piper]

well, for what it's worth, my "gut" feeling is that this would be ok. The spring/strut combination is pretty robust and I'd doubt that the spring compressor would be needed. While I haven't done what you're going to do, I'm pretty confident the strut would be ok using the spring as its suspension source. I have replaced lots of spring/strut combos and can safely say that the spring in tension (like hanging the parts you're going to) would likely not elongate much.

[12Ounce]

Agreed, the strut is very robust ... just think what happens when the front end of a vehicle happens to bound off the ground ... the piston stop must be rugged enough to stop the spring force, probably thousands of times.

I don't have a good image of how you intend to remove/support the engine ... please be safe!

[dhollow2]

I disconnected the suspension components last night and, as predicted, the spring barely noticed the weight.

12ounce, I'm using a support bar mounted across the fenders to support the engine when the subframe is out. Here's a picture of one installed on a Taurus:
http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/dh...rtbar.jpg.html
This is the process Alldata and Haynes specify. I won't proceed until I'm certain the engine is securely supported.

[wiswind]

Others may have better advice on the newer Windstars.
2 items that you might want to replace are the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) that is located on the back side of the transmission.....not to be confused with the Turbine Speed Sensor (TSS) located on the side of the transmission, next to the driver's side half shaft.
This part is difficult to change in-vehicle as you cannot get to it easily.
The other part is the Neutral Safety Switch also known as Transmission Range Sensor.....that is the part that you mentioned that the shift cable connects to.
This part seems to come up a lot as a failure item on the 1999 and newer windstars....however, it is not so difficult to change in-vehicle.

I would also make SURE that you have good fluid flow through the transmission fluid cooler (inside the radiator).
I would recommend that you add a Magnefine inline filter in the fluid line that flows INTO the transmission from the cooler.
This filter will catch a lot more than the in-pan filter inside the transmission as it filters down to a much much smaller particle size and it also has a big magnet that the fluid as to pass over, catching more metallic "fuzz" than the in-pan magnet catches.

Another thing that I would verify ( once you have the vehicle back together and running) is that the radiator fans work at "low speed"......the way to verify this is to turn the A/C on with the vehicle sitting at idle......the radiator fans should be running.
If they are not, the common cause is a defective radiator fan "dropping" resistor.
This is a ceramic body resistor that is mounted on the metal front bumper......you can see it if you look down by the passenger side headlight.
The pictures that the link in my signature takes you to will show you this part.
Low speed radiator fan operation GREATLY helps your transmission stay cool in stop and go traffic.
Of course, adding a auxillary transmission cooler will also help keep your transmission cool.....a very nice upgrade if you plan to keep your vehicle for some time.

I had a FORD re-manufactured transmission installed in my '96 Windstar.....it hurt the wallet at the time, but it was DEFINITELY the way to go for me as I planned to keep the vehicle.
Rebuilt transmissions sourced locally are much cheaper, but, in order to compete on price.....they tend to only replace things that are bad......whereas the FORD Re-man has had the wear items replace....and much more.

[dhollow2]

wiswind, thanks for the input. I did buy a Ford reman transmission so it comes with all new sensors. Before I dropped the pan I disconnected the cooler return line and started the van to check the fluid flow. It pumped out about a quart per 15 seconds which is adequate flow according to what I have read. I ran transmission flush through the cooler and I'm installing an in-line filter as well. I installed an aux cooler a couple of years ago hoping to delay the demise of the old transmission so I'm good there.

I planned to spend a couple of full days over the weekend and get close, if not totally finished, but life got in the way and I only spent a couple of hours on it. For 12ounce, here's a picture of the installed engine support bar:

I did have to make some wedges out of 2x4's to ensure the bar didn't slide on the sloped fenders but it's rock solid hanging from 4 chains. I should have the subframe (all-thread method, thanks again 12ounce!) and maybe the transmission out tonight after work.

[12Ounce]

Nice looking store-bought rig! I have a similar one ... well, kinda ... LOL! It amounts to two lengths of 2x4's ...longer that what you have, but there to protect the tops of fenders and leveled for good sliding about. And my cross-beam is a 4x4 ... with chains around the engine. I've used this on other models ... not yet on the Windstar. But I will use it soon as I want to replace the Winny sub frame, and replace the front engine cover gasket.

[dhollow2]

I finally had time to work on the transmission and subframe swap over the weekend and I'm just about done. I just have to get the old flex pipe separated from the Y-pipe and then reinstall and it's ready for the road again. I did make one rather disturbing finding when I pulled one of the rear body mount "pucks" out of the old subframe and the steel completely fell apart around it.



The only thing keeping the subframe from breaking loose was the bracket installed during the recall. To anyone "Up North" that hasn't had the recall performed - GET IT DONE! I feel much better knowing it now has a rust free subframe on it.

[Plata]

WOW that subframe was literally ready to broke

i also removed mine in my old windstar 2000, because of the same, removing the transmission, and it doesnt seem to be that damaged, really, that is serious damage.

The mine was broken from nearly that place, but it has no rust, so i could weld it.


Something that i could see, its other bad designed thing, just under the battery comparment, the subframe it has rust (yes in that lace it has rust) exactly in the drain hole of the battery comparment, i dont know if that is caused by the battery, because of the acid or what, but well its very strange, and its another place to verify the subframe, just to be extracareful and avoid future damage, we could paint that zone or something to avoid the rust