Leak at torque converter between engine and transmission: THE END OF the OLE WINNIE?

[searcherrr]

Shop tells me I'm leaking engine oil and transmission oil from the rear main seal or what the tranny guys say is the front seal. New engine.. new transmission about 40k miles ago. Is this the end of the Windstar? Not sure I wanna do another major overhaul. Hoping that bolts can just be tightened or something.

I did tow my mom's car a month or so back (Nissan Maxima 3186lbs curb weight) and now I'm wondering if it was too much for it... though it seemed to pull it with ease using a tow dolly which amounted to a tandem axle setup. I took it easy too and never went over 70 for 330 miles.

I have that Lucas tranny oil protectant stuff in the fluid and it made a major difference in the shifting (smoother... much smoother and no more late or early shifts), but someone yesterday at the transmission shop I went to said that it can make my seals weak over time. Anyone know anything about that?

If they have to put a new seal in between the transmission and engine...... would ya'll do it if your new engine/transmission was only about 45k old? I'm worried about all the other things that can go wrong in left field after dropping the tranny etc.. and I guess they will have to drop the engine as well right?

Also, have an entirely new suspension and exhaust system in it too.

Ahhhhhhhhhh the repairs are getting old and the parts are getting hard to find.

[olopezm]

I'm not sure if Lucas product will weaken the seals but I do know it makes them swell and that's what stops leaks. What kind of warranty did you get on the new transmission and engine.

Both seals leaking at the same time would make me believe something wasn't installed correctly or is out of balance. Have you felt any vibrations?

Oscar.

[tempfixit]

I Agree with Oscar.

When you say NEW, do you mean new to this vehicle or rebuilt engine and transmssion.

I would tend to believe that the input shaft on the transmission to the torque convertor is causing vibration to the crankshaft thru the torque convertor which damaged the rear main seal. I assume that they checked to make sure bolts holding convertor to flex plate are tight. When you towed did you use overdrive or 3rd gear and was a external cooler also installed???

This is a 95 Windstar if I remember correctly.

[Windstartled]

Originally Posted by searcherrr

Ahhhhhhhhhh the repairs are getting old and the parts are getting hard to find.

LKQ has parts galore, if they don't have a yard in your area just go to

http://www.lkqcorp.com/

[wiswind]

That is odd......leaking oil from the engine and transmission fluid from the transmission.
In both cases, those should be NEW seals as of when they came to you as they were rebuilt units.
At over 229K miles, my '96 had a VERY slight leak at that location.
Not enough to put spots on the ground or cause any fluid level drop.....it was just wet at that location.
I'm not up on what could have caused both to fail so soon....but it is NOT normal.
I don't think that your towing would have cause this.
As someone mentioned....something out of balance or a wobble of the shaft between the 2 sounds like a likely cause.

As for the Lucas causing the leak.....again, I don't think so.
Reason, they are NEW seals (40K miles is not even broken in).
I can understand the argument of an additive cleaning sludge up...which was sealing a leaky seal, but you have NEW seals......that were not leaking to start with.
If the Lucas caused a NEW seal to leak......then we would be reading posts about that.
I have never used Lucas products, but I don't buy it as causing the problem or even contributing to it.

As a completely unqualified person to comment......it sounds to me like something was not lined up just right or a balance issue.
It is unlikely that you would feel it while driving as if it was that bad, the seals would not have lasted 40K miles.

[12Ounce]

Unless someone/something defeated the little aligning pins used between the tranny and engine, I don't see how anything can be mis-aligned in the final assembly. Sure, if the tranny and engine are not brought together properly (aligned), during the mate-up, and there is some "forcing" applied ... then some damage can occur. But you would think this would show up before 40K miles passed.

I could see if the engine crank bearings were fitted too loosely, or have worn quickly because of poor oil or some contaminant (coolant or an additive?), the crank could begin a wobble that would affect both engine and tranny seals. I suppose the tranny bearings could have also been the initial culprit ... I'm just not that familiar with the tranny and the likelihood of this happening.

[searcherrr]

95 3.8L Windstar - yes.

Warranty on engine and tranny are done.

Towed with all gears including overdrive and drove it easy.

Drives/shifts like a dream (should with all the work I've done to it)... but... maybe the CRANK is doing this????? P0340

I just got this a few days back: CODE P0340 - camshaft sensor circuit malfunction - I looked in my records and could not find a record of replacing the camshaft sensor and I'm nearly at 200k miles. I think the old camshaft sensor was transferred onto the new engine... I did get a new synchro a long time ago, but I don't think it came with a new camshaft sensor.

I had lunges on startup and still do... it tries to push itself forward without the accelerator being pushed.. and gives me trouble starting up hot or cold engine. I usually crank it 2 or 3 times and then back off the key/ignition and then I crank it again and it starts right up. During these cranks the engine seems to wobble more than usual.

I cleared the P0340, then it reappeared, and then P0340 turned itself OFF.... after I was driving around..... within about a 4 day period, but it is still doing these symptoms, yet gas mileage is still roughly the same as usual though I do feel like its always run rich and I smell gas out the tailpipe.... (new gas tank a few months ago; because my old one cracked).

Think I should just order and replace the camshaft sensor and see what happens? If I do, and I do not disturb the synchro position... ya think I can just pull the camshaft sensor off and put the new one on without special tools or TDC checking? I have the synchro aligntment tools if I need to do that though, but I'd rather not have to. I've always stayed away from engine timing cause it freaks me out. lol

Thanks guys!

[olopezm]

Hi man,

You'll have no problem with removing and reinstalling the camshaft sensor; you'll need no alignment tool.

Have you checked the condition of engine and transmission mounts? A bad one can surely cause too much movement which will be transfered between engine and transmission. If one of them sits in a "bad" position, it can put weight on the components between both engine and transmission.

As a side story, my uncles '92 Buick Century bent an axle shaft because of the transmission mount being bad, so you get an idea.

Oscar.

[Grabber5.0]

Sensor is cheap and not real hard to replace (it's under the bypass tube). It's just a cap, and there is no possibility of disturbing the synchro position.

Edit: Oscar is faster than me.

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

[searcherrr]

Oh and YES, the transmission shop I brought it too a few days ago says that the mount bolts from tranny to engine are in fact tight. Also, the engine mounts were replaced when the tranny was replaced about 40 - 50k miles ago. I would not know exactly what to look for when looking at the mounts anyway... I know they hold the engine up and buffer it from the frame, but I dunno where I'd look for that, but since they have been replaced at least once

Also, I should mention (forgot to) that unfortunately this engine has overheated at least once since I've had it installed. The thermostat went bad after that overheating incident, and had to be drilled out and rethreaded to be replaced. I guess the engine having overheated at least once could cause weak seals just about anywhere now huh?

HOW HOT DID IT GET? It got up to H on the temp gauge while on interstate, but not above as since I now have experience with this I did my best to keep the temp lower till I could stop off the interstate. I found the issue to be vapor lock.

Apparently there is also a coolant leak somewhere, and I have not been able to identify where it is. I was scared about that with the head gaskets, but not as scared as I would be if the engine were OEM with the known bad head gaskets. This is a Jasper reman with new MLS head gaskets. I've checked the engine oil several times and never see signs of coolant mixture, and I do have an engine oil leak from the crescent valley of the oil pan.

So, thats 3 fluid leaks:
Engine oil leak from the crescent valley of oil pan (no puddle)
Engine/Tranny oil "seepage" (no puddle on concrete) from tranny/engine mate point
Coolant leak somewhere believed (from ears) to be near pulleys because every morning when I start it up it squeaks from the famous sound of coolant on the belt or pulleys. I used to have trouble with the rad cap leaking, but I've put a paper towel there for over a week now and I see no leakage. I have to keep burping the coolant system (on driveway incline) every few weeks to 2 months to ensure it has enough coolant.

So given all this info about OVERHEATING and the P0340 code for the camshaft sensor, do you think the harsh cranking at startups could've caused my leaks, or more likely the overheating event?

Camshaft sensor - I know I should get OEM, but in the event I can't find one before Friday locally, anyone else have any good brand recommendations for this part?

[tempfixit]

My opinion of the engine/tranny oil leak it is not severe at this point and I would monitor it.

I would tend to the camshaft sensor, you may want to consider getting the syncronizer also so you do not need to to the job twice. If the original sensor was installed with rebuilt engine, syncronizer may also be defective.. If I remember correctly the camshaft sensor tell the ecm when to fire the injectorss. (Soneone correct me if wrong,)

I don't remember if you installed a new fuel pump with gas tank ot not, but have you tried priming the fuel system before starting to see if it makes a difference in starting?? Key on for 5 seconds, then turn key off, wait 30seconds or so and turn key to prime fuel pump again, wait a little then see how it starts.

Check the water pump area for leaks, was a new water pump installed when rebuilt engine installed???

Do a coolant pressure test to see if coolant leak can be located>

[searcherrr]

Yeah, new fuel pump is in there, but was before the new gas tank. I had the original gas tank cleaned and a new fuel pump installed a long while back (40k mile ago about???) around same time as engine/transmission changeover. But in the past 3k miles I had a new gas tank put in... and it was hard as hell to find too.

Sychro is a new one, but I guess the Cam sensor can ruin the synchro? I was thinking about picking up both though too.... and maybe even buy 2 or 3 of each since the synchro's are almost unobtainable anymore for the 95. I can find them for other years, but not the 95 so much. I have found some ... and I will probably buy a couple soon.

Priming the fuel system sounds like a good idea. If it works, what does that tell me?

Cam sensor DOES have a lot to do with fuel injection. Maybe this is why I've always smelled it running rich?

Also, I can't recall at the moment, but I think both of my downstream O2 sensors were NOT reporting voltage anymore when I put in the scan tool... but since they do not factor into the fuel timing etc... does that matter?

New water pump was installed after the original engine overheated... so that I could get back home with the OEM engine... but I dunno if they transferred that new water pump to the new engine or not... if I didn't yet again buy another new water pump, that new water pump which was only used for 90 miles to get me back home on the OEM engine would've been transferred over to the new engine.

Whats the quickest/easiest way to do a coolant pressure test?

Thanks as usual all you guys.

[tempfixit]

Priming of the fuel pump if works normally means that the check valve is letting the fuel leak back into tank, not a performance issue just when pump not operating.

Check with your local Orielys or autozone rent a tool program for a Coolant Pressure tester that you attach to the radiator in place of the radiator cap and pressureize the system. Normally you pay the price of the tool for rental which is returned in full when the tool is returned.

[wiswind]

Camshaft sensor.....I would replace just the sensor.
It is held in place with 2 small bolts and has an electrical connection.

Downstream oxygen sensors......If they are not working, you will get a Check Engine Light with a code indicating a problem with the sensor(s).
However.....when you clear your codes, the system has to "complete" the full test cycle before you get the "ready" indication.
If you are in a area that has emission testing, you MUST have the "Ready" indication in order to pass.
After I replaced my catalytic converters, it would take FOREVER....1 to 2 month for the test cycle to complete and give me the "ready" indication on my ScanGauge.
The part of the test that takes the longest?......the downstream oxygen sensors.
They were WORKING, but it just took forever to have the full test complete.
I always figured that it must have been my aftermarket catalytic coverters (Walker).
I recall that you replaced your catalytic converters as well with aftermarket, so that might be the reason.
In short.....I would not worry as everything is working.

The oil leaks that you mention don't sound like they are something to worry about.
YES.....I like everything to be perfect.
However, a slight seepage is not something to dump money and time worrying about.

The COOLANT leak is a concern.
I would hope that your engine gaskets would not be causing this.......as they were certainly replaced when the engine was re-manufactured at Jasper....and the replacement gaskets are improved and should outlast the vehicle (NEVER need messing with).
I would hope that it would be EXTERNAL to the engine.
I am thinking along the lines of a bypass hose, radiator hose, or heater hose or connection at either end of one of those hoses.
Another possibility is the radiator.......as it has had a bit of handling with all you have done.
I don't remember if you replaced it or not.....but I would suspect a replacement radiator of leaking before the original one........as it is tough to get as good of quality in a aftermarket radiator.
They use plastic side tanks with aluminum fins........and it is hard to make those so that they don't develop leaks at the side tank to fin connection.
As far as coolant into the engine oil.....if you suspect that....I would order a FREE sample kit from Blackstone Labs and send a oil sample in for testing.
It takes a LOT of coolant into the oil before a person can look/sniff and be able to tell.
The other thing a oil sample test will tell you is if you are getting fuel into the oil.....like a slightly leaking fuel injector.
That is not likely as the injectors seem to be quite reliable.

[searcherrr]

Thanks Carl and everyone else. Its wonderful to be able to post on a forum where I'm actually remembered and known. LOL and kinda funny too.

Can anyone confirm that the A1 Cardone part number 30-2683 WILL WORK for the 3.8L 1995 Windstar? I keep finding that its for the 3.0L 95 windstar, but can't get a good reference that it will work for the 3.8L.

The radiator is a 3rd party (Proliance I believe - Ready Rad brand/model). I had to replace it because the OEM rad cracked on my first overheat incident with the OEM engine. I have an OEM replacement (used) FORD radiator in a box I've never opened from someone on Ebay a few months ago when I was chasing this coolant problem and felt sure it was leaking from the rad cap service valve, but I JB water welded that valve shut so the only in and out openings would be the rad cap and the overflow reservoir line. Since then I have not seen coolant come from that area and I leave a paper towel there to be sure.... so the coolant is definitely getting out somewhere else and I do see air bubbles float up in the overflow jug when I burp the van on an incline with the heaters going and reving the engine.... though oddly enough... last time I burped it, I didn't see the air bubbles, but all the other times before that I did.

I'm gonna get the Camshaft sensor and replace it and see if that fixes my current code and other issues. Fingers crossed.