98 Caravan LE - Multiple Electrical Issues

[Dreamweaver10]

I have been researching a problem I have been having with my wife’s van and I ran across this site, hoping someone might have a magic wand I have read several threads and articles on some of these issues, but I can't put my finger on the culprit, if there is in fact a single culprit. … here goes:

1998 Caravan LE

Problem #1 – CONSTANT UNTIL IT WAS FIXED - Headlights: Both headlights were very dim… possibly 50% of their original luminescence. I don’t know how long this was an issue, but they were replaced sometime last year. Problem solved.

Problem #2 – INTERMITTANT – HAS NOT OCCURRED FOR SEVERAL MONTHS Blower motor inoperative: This has happened 2 or 3 times. Every time it has happened, when she pulled off the road, turned off and restarted her car, the blower worked again. Hasn’t happened in at least a few months.

Problem #3 - INTERMITTANT – STILL OCCURS Heater / AC control “mini-lites” constantly flashing. This has been an on again / off again problem… now it is constant. Every time she starts the van, all of the lights flash. The van is currently at the mechanics shop.

Problem #4 – INTERMITTANT – STILL OCCURS Dash gauges, etc. just stop working. This has happened on and off for about a year +. When it happens, she looks for a bump in the road, hits it, and the dash gauges come on again.

Problem #5 - Door locks (a) make a fluttering noise every time the car is turned on and off… this is not intermittent, but constant. (b) Sometimes the door lock will unlock with the keyless entry, but it will not lock the door. It spontaneously started working again and has stayed in operable condition since.

Problem #6 – INTERMITTANT – STILL OCCURS Car won’t start: She can be driving around, park the car --- even just for a few minutes --- and tries to start it again and it won’t start. This has happened numerous times over the last year or so.

Power windows, electric seats, and most other interior electrical always seem to work. Occasionally the dome light doesn’t work, but it somehow seems to start working on its own as well.

I took it in to our mechanic about a month ago (not a dealer, but a good mechanic). He took the dash apart, looked things over, and couldn’t see any visible damage (I don’t know if he checked the solder joints on the back of the dash???). After he did a little research, he said he thought it was probably a bad BCM --- the one in the van is # 04801062AE ---.

• The van was ordered without an alarm – I only say this because I have read that there are 2 different BCM’s --- one for a factory car with alarm, another for a car ordered without alarm.
• We put an aftermarket alarm/remote starter in the car about 4 years ago, which has worked flawlessly. It was not until about a year ago that we started having these problems.
• Yesterday I had my friend take the aftermarket alarm/remote starter out, thinking that (according to my mechanic) this might be the culprit…. The van still wouldn’t start, and all the little lites on the heater / AC control are still blinking... don't know if the dash panel is out or not.

NOTE – In every instance, with the exception of this current situation, when the van wouldn’t start with the ignition switch, the remote starter would get it started. In every instance, after the car was started again with the remote, at some point after the fact, we could start the car again with the key.

• We jump-started the van and ran it for a few minutes, and parked it. This morning we started it up (with a different battery) and drove it straight to the mechanic.

We can’t really afford to buy a new car, which is the simplest solution. I have used my mechanic for years, I trust him, and he never rips me off. I hate to take it to the dealer but, if I have to, I guess I will. My guy works on Mercedes, Ferrari’s, and Chevy and Chryslers, so he is pretty broad in his knowledge base… but maybe this is something Chrysler-specific?

Any insight you might be able to provide would be appreciated. I found a reconditioned BCM on the internet but they seem to try to let you know that the car may have to be reprogrammed after installation. If that’s the case, I will probably have to take it to the dealer anyway???

[RIP]

Welcome aboard. Much of this sounds CCD data bus related. The BCM, PCM, TCM, instrument cluster, and climate control panel all use this bus to send simultanios traffic over. High resistance anywhere on the bus can cause seemingly unrelated problems. The usual trouble spots are cracked solder joints on the instrument cluster circuit board, specifically where the connector is soldered to the board. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...p?t=480027Heat damaged connections on the climate control panel connector is another. http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php?t=6547 The usual reported symptoms are troubles with the instruments, climate control and starting just as you are seeing.

A couple tricks incase you haven't found them:
> Disconnet the climate control panel. Sometimes starting and cluster problems disappear.
> Remove the IOD fuse for 2-3 minutes to reset the BCM and bus. Disconnecting the battery does the same.
> Resolder the cluster solder joints even if they apper ok. Some of these cracks can be tiny.

Be careful with BCMs. Make sure the BCM you install has the same security system configuration as the one you remove. If there's a mismatch you might damage the PCM. *When you say it won't start, do you mean you get rotation but no ignition or you turn the key and hear a click or nothing at all? Other things to look for are corroded wiring at or on the PDC and your battery. You say you jumped it to start it. Low or erratic battery voltage can create havoc with your electronics.

[Dreamweaver10]

RIP

thanks for the reply / info. I have forwarded it to my repair shop... keeping fingers crossed

Yes... we get a rotation and hear the clicking noise... when starting it with the ignition switch. But (before we took it out) almost every time we started it with the remote starter, it would start right up. We would drive it to our destination, jump out, do our shopping or whatever, and usually it would just start right up again. since my wife usually starts it with the remote starter, we don't know what percentage of the time starting it with the key would be successful... I guess, after we get it back, we will be finding out, since we took the remote starter / alarm system out.

My mechanic says he has seen nothing but problems with these aftermarket remote systems. His iadvice to me is, after he gets this car back on the road, to leave it out... what say you?

[RIP]

Originally Posted by Dreamweaver10

RIP

thanks for the reply / info. I have forwarded it to my repair shop... keeping fingers crossed

Yes... we get a rotation and hear the clicking noise... when starting it with the ignition switch. But (before we took it out) almost every time we started it with the remote starter, it would start right up. We would drive it to our destination, jump out, do our shopping or whatever, and usually it would just start right up again. since my wife usually starts it with the remote starter, we don't know what percentage of the time starting it with the key would be successful... I guess, after we get it back, we will be finding out, since we took the remote starter / alarm system out.

My mechanic says he has seen nothing but problems with these aftermarket remote systems. His iadvice to me is, after he gets this car back on the road, to leave it out... what say you?

While typing out my answer (twice as long as what is there) I lost the whole damn thing while flipping between websites getting info. In that original post I said something like the remote starter issue doesn't jive with what I normally read about in issues like yours so this CCD bus issue may not be the problem. Looks like in my haste to get something to you at 1:30 am I omitted that point.

Yes, I have read about remote start/alarm systems creating many headaches, however I'm sure there are thousands who have no problems with them. I personnally have had zero experience with them. I would agrree with your mechanic and leave it disconnected for now and see if this problem goes away. Might try contacting the manufacturer or the installer and see if they can help. If you can confirm it wasn't the problem reconnect it and see what happens.

[rtisher]

I have had a lot of the same problems. I have a 98 and we have had some crazy electrical problems that I need help with

1. Some of the time when I turn off the van, the head lights come on and stay on forever. I can advance the ignition and they will go off
2. The a/c is fully charged and functions when my mechanic "forces" the compressor to cycle. Otherwise no cold air, just fan
3. The speedometer has been stuck at 30 until the dealer "reset' it, but now it is just inaccurate and showing very high speeds
4. Sometimes the vehicle stalls and will crank and barely fire for a second and then dies. I smack the dash a few times and the car is fine
5. power door locks do not function from the door or the fob
6. NO turn signals

In following another site I was told to put in a bcm. This did not fix it or help it.
I took it to the dealer and they said to put in a power distrubution center.........any help?

[RIP]

Always better to open your own thread rather than reopen an old one. All these need to be troubleshot but here's some arm chair thoughts:

#1 Ignition switch
#2 Bad pressure switch or PCM input to clutch
#3 Turn ignition to on (not start) then press the odometer trip and reset buttons. After
a few seconds the instruments should cycle and return to normal...you hope.
#4 Sounds like a classic case of cracked instrument cluster solder joints. There's many
threads on the forum about it.
#5&6 Check fuses? Reset the BCM by pulling the IOD fuse in the fuse panel near battery
for 2-3 minutes.

[Dreamweaver10]

OK - so it's been over a year since I replaced the BCM. the car has worked well (I did NOT replace the remote start-up device), until now....

The "new" problem is:

A. Only the high speed of the windshield wipers works... no lower sepped, no intermittant

B. The electric door locks will unlock the locks, but they won't lock them


My mechanic says the trouble code says it's the same dang BCM module. The one I purchased (I think) was a reconditioned one... much less $$$ than a new one.

Is this typical --- for a refurb BCM to only last 18 months?
Should I break down and just buy a new one?

[RIP]

Hey, better late than never. Glad to hear you got your problem fixed. Now you're back with more problems and it's Christmas. Ugh!

It's tough to argue with a mechanic who has a code but, there are a few things that could be checked if he didn't already. The door lock system uses separate door lock and door unlock relays. They are both on the junction block panel in the cabin. You could swap the door lock relay with another identical relay that's probably on the same panel. As for the wipers, high speed bypasses the BCM and is powered directly off the power bus via the switch. All the slower speeds go through a resistor network then the BCM then on to the wiper motor. The resistor network is in the switch and can be tested with a meter either looking for resistance or power.

Any idea what the code is? I'm thinking it's a "body code" starting with "U" instead of the usual "P".

There's always that IOD fuse trick.

[Dreamweaver10]

Originally Posted by RIP

.....
Any idea what the code is? I'm thinking it's a "body code" starting with "U" instead of the usual "P".

There's always that IOD fuse trick.

I'll call Monday and see what he says the code is......


Pardon my ignorance... could you explain to me what the IOD fuse trick is?

[RIP]

As stated in post #2 in this thread dated 4/30/09 "> Remove the IOD fuse for 2-3 minutes to reset the BCM and bus. Disconnecting the battery does the same."

The BCM plays a roll in controlling door locks and wipers as well as nearly every accessory function on the van. The IOD fuse is the main power supply for the BCM. It's located in the underhood fuse box (PDC).

[Dreamweaver10]

Originally Posted by RIP

As stated in post #2 in this thread dated 4/30/09 "> .....

Oops --- Guess I should have re-read the thread before I asked that question... thanks again for all the help.... on my way to see what I can see.

[Dreamweaver10]

Originally Posted by RIP

...... The IOD fuse is the main power supply for the BCM. It's located in the underhood fuse box (PDC).

Edit... Sorry.... Initial post said I couldn't find it........ I finally found it - My eyes aren't what they used to be. The relay is written out as "10a Memory"... then, in even smaller type, it does say "IOD" --- I'll let you know what happens

And, now we have a new symptom... every time we start the car, the rear window wiper comes on, as well as the rear washer.... they won't shut off ..... but, the front wipers work really well..... but ONLY on high

[Dreamweaver10]

I think I've narrowed it down to somewhere between "This car is possessed!" and "Life is a bowl of cherries".

Tried the IOD fuse trick... twice:

First time it sort of corrected the front wiper problem... now I have low speed and high speed, but still no intermittant. (I just pulled the fuse for the rear... too much hassle)

The second time it semi-fixed the door lock problem, but not really


The initial scenario was, starting about 2 weeks ago, the door lock function would unlock the locks, but it would not lock them.

Then, a week later, they stopped working alltogether.

Now, after doing the IOD fuse trick....... this time by flipping a different 10 amp into it from a different location...., they will lock............. but only when I pull the switch DOWN.... a reverse partial fix.

I went to the store and picked up some fuses. Even though they looked good, I replaced the IOD fuse and the door lock fuse with new ones.... it didn't change anything from the last "fix".

[RIP]

Might try disconnecting the negative battery cable for 10 minutes. This will cut all power to the BCM and data bus. Since you are seeing changes after pulling the IOD fuse it appears this is a BCM/data bus issue and not a switch/relay problem though you can't rule out multiple failures in the same system.

I've been living with both front and rear "possesed wipers" on my 96 for years now. When under warranty the dealer changed the wiper switch stalk which didn't help then the BCM which fixed it for a bit over a year (there's your every 18 month question answer). At that point it was out of warranty. Since then when it gets bad enough I just pull the fuse for the front wipers. Most of the time they will sweep two three times then stop about every 4th or 5th startup and usually only at startup. Sometimes they will go for weeks without cycling on their own. Just one of the many joys of owning a Chrysler product.

[mikefaster]

Lots of times, because of how many different functions they have these computers get "corrupted"... Meaning, I don't think they are bad, they just need to be reflashed... I think as newer programs become available, that this is less likely to happen... It also may have something to do with your heat that blows nearby that area that screws them up over time...

HOWEVER...

I have never taken a chance on a computer that had failed and get it reflashed; you CAN try it, but...

I usually buy a used computer on ebay; I buy one with the same part number that claims to be a "working" model... I usually don't bother trying to see if that used one will work; they usually DON'T work at least 50% of the time because there are different functions and options for different vehicles... Plus your mileage will change! usually for the worse!

I get engine computers reflashed for Dodge products for $60 plus shipping both ways from Crites Core, located in Indiana... www.critescore.com... I believe that the BCM are similar pricing... They also repair computers... I don't know all their prices, but all I know, is that it is worth it to do it right and they are good... They flash it with your VIN number and mileage... If you buy a used computer, then they can still etch your VIN and mileage to it... I would suggest giving them a higher mileage and then install it when you reach that mileage... That way you can drive your van while they reflash the other one...

Those guys in Florida sell junk... Don't buy their computers! But that's my opinion...

Hope that helps...
Mike