Shouldn't they have killed Buick?

[e12Euro]

I am wondering if in the GM restructuring plan maybe they should have dumped Buick instead of Pontiac? Buick is a luxury brand, and that makes it too close to Cadillac. Pontiac would have been an easy way to sell future sporty cars, like a real GTO. Sales of the G8 were 22,000 in 2008, not far off target. Overall I can't understand why the new GM has killed off any chance of bringing back the GTO down the track?



'Ol Pontiac 400

[wlkjr]

If they hadn't been stupid, they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by wlkjr

If they hadn't been stupid, they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Well, yes.
However, GM's marketing strategy of offering 5 seperate brands, became obsolete in 1960.

Often these brands duplicated engineering etc (did GM really need 6 completely different iron pushrod V8 engine designs, all built at the same time, often all placed in the same chassis, for 30 years??) which was expensive and wasteful.

In 1960, GM started offering compact and full size cars for various brands.... thus the brands started competing directly with each other in terms of features, size and price. In the long run, this was also a wasteful policy.

I think GM believes that Pontiac is, in the long run, too close to Chevy, which it is, and thus has to go. Cadillac will remain strictly exclusive and expensive. Buick will cover the large middleground, with much less overlap than has been seen in the past.

FWIW, GM is finally following the marketing plan that Ford settled on, 70 years ago...... three divisions that cover the whole market.

['97ventureowner]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

FWIW, GM is finally following the marketing plan that Ford settled on, 70 years ago...... three divisions that cover the whole market.

And even that has it's ups and downs with reports every so often that Ford is considering doing away with Mercury. Here's but one site on the web mentioning just that: http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/06...t-by-2012.html

[goodoldpapa]

The main problem I saw with Pontiac in recent years was that you could barely tell the difference between a Grand Am, Grand Prix, & Bonneville. Minor differeces in headlights & tailights was about it. Most say that Buick hangs on because it sells good overseas. Still, if you look at the vehicles on the highway, there is a lot more Pontiacs than Buicks on the road.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by '97ventureowner

And even that has it's ups and downs with reports every so often that Ford is considering doing away with Mercury.

Ford dumped Mercury in Canada about 11 years ago. Since then, it's just been Ford and Lincoln here. So far, they have not missed Merc.

As you know, Canada's car market is very similar to the US, so what has worked here may work in the US.

This is , IMO quite a let-down. Mercury sold many special, Canada-specific models over the years (variations on US designs) such as the Mercury Meteor, Montcalm, Richeleu, Rideau 500, and best of all, a Mercury pick-up truck!!

Many other manufacturers these days seem to do well with a volume brand and a luxury brand. Imho it's the execution of effective marketing that makes such a policy work.

[oldblu65]

The reason they kept Buick and dumped Pontiac is simple ! The Buick brand is very popular in China , the Chinese love their Buick's ! This is too much of a sales opportunity for GM to pass up ! Their sales forecast for China is through the roof ! This may seem illogical to some but they are in business to sell cars and they will sell many , many Buick's in China !

[e12Euro]

I believe Pontiac's demise was caused by the bad karma started by the 1983 movie Smokey & The Bandit Part 3. Any day a Trans Am has to share the silver screen with a plastic fish, is not a good one.

[xeroinfinity]

The thing most liked about Pontiac is they offered a lower priced and often sporty cars. Though the newest line, G5, G6 etc, all do look to much alike.

The only Buicks I see are driven by people over 60 years old. I mean what happened to the Buick GS ? The Grand Nationals ?

To me, it's like Ford stopping production on Mustangs, foolish.

[MrPbody]

Oldblu65 nailed it. In the US, Pontiac outsold Buick 2:1. Outside the US, Buick outsold Pontiac 1.2:1. China's future market is indeed, what they were "looking at". Since Buicks cost about the same to build as Pontiacs, and sell for more, it's all about the money. Nothing else...

Jim

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by MrPbody

it's all about the money.

Alfred P Sloan, the mega-mogul behind the dominance of GM in America for 50 years once said: "General Motors does not make cars. General Motors makes money."

[wlkjr]

GM didn't have too many brands, they had a glut of dealers. They were in competition with themselves. Now they are getting rid of the older dealers that have been in business from way back, some older than 50. How many big dealerships have you noticed that have been bought and sold multiple times over a short period of time? It's almost like a pyramid scheme, and now there's no one left to pay.

[e12Euro]

Originally Posted by wlkjr

GM didn't have too many brands, they had a glut of dealers. They were in competition with themselves. Now they are getting rid of the older dealers that have been in business from way back, some older than 50. How many big dealerships have you noticed that have been bought and sold multiple times over a short period of time? It's almost like a pyramid scheme, and now there's no one left to pay.

Pontiac was the brand GM had that could take on BMW, look at the Grand Am, at one time a 4 door Trans Am that was the best 4 door sport sedan in the country.



4 barrel 301 & 4 speed

Franchise sales are always the same, like McDonalds, they sell too many and the dealers/stores are too close location wise so no one makes money and they change hands often.

One of these days someone is going to have to explain to me this: Why do the Chinese like Buicks so much?

[manicmechanix]

I agree that Pontiac was the better division from an auto enthusiast perspective. If you compare similar platforms between a Chevrolet and a Pontiac, the Pontiac had a better tuning and drove and rode better. There's a lot you can do with the same basic platform to make a car feel and drive totally different.

I do think that recent Pontiacs all looked the same and the naming was dumb, G5, G6, G8. The Grand Am and Sunfire had a good name reputation and loyal customers, and they should've kept the names the same, or at elast came up with something better than G5,6,8.
I also agree with the point that it was a business decision and Buick sales to China were the reasoning behind the decision. All I can say is they need to make a Chevy Malibu 2-door sport coupe, available with 4-cylinder and V6. It's long overdue and they should've made a 2-door Malibu coupe sarting in '97.

[e12Euro]

The G numbering system made little sense. I can only think they were thinking like Saab (another GM family member once) and like the 9-3 and 9-5 were trying to make people understand they were targeting BMW 3, 5 series and such. After spending years building up nameplates like Grand Prix and Grand Am this was a waste.

Ford have just turned in a billion profit for the 3rd quarter. Granted, Ford never had as many brands as GM, but I wouldn't say Ford has had a better product over the last 10 years, quality or design wise. Ford's success is because they just ran the company better. GM on the other hand drove brands like Olds into the dust, and just think how many people used to be repeat Olds buyers.