Front Brakes ....Help

AvalonJohn · #1 03-18-2009, 02:59 AM

Guys,

Question .... have a 99 Windstar with 3.8 L front disc. It seems the caliper pins/studs (not bolts) are frozen in the caliper mounting bracket ? If I recall corectly (I did them two years ago) these pins slide out of the bracket and they are greeses (lightly) and you put on new rubber bushings as well ? I used hi-temp moly greese last time. Mine are frozen in there and all lubracaint seems to be gone. Do these go bad and am I correct in that they can be removed to be lubed ? Like I said, thought I did this on the Winny last time I did front brakes ?? Also one pin/stud (from on-line picture) looks differnt than the other in that it's skinner at one end). Does one pin go in the top hole and one on the bottom ? Also, noticed inner pads were worn and needed to be replaced but outter still had plenty of meat on them. Almost like outter pads weren't moving on pins ?

Thanks,

AJ

northern piper · #2 03-18-2009, 07:57 AM

something has caused the pads to bind leading to only 1 side wearing. You may need to rebuild the caliper or just service it. When the caliper pushes on the pads they both should clamp onto the rotor. Likely when you originally replaced the pads things were ok but as time went on things started to bind. I'd suggest removing the calipers, cleaning everything, getting new rotors and pads, buy the hardware kit for the front which will include some lubricant and the pad metal slippers to hold them in the caliper. You may need to rebuild the caliper or could also replace if it's really bad. This work of course needs to be done on both sides, not just the problem side. If you haven't subscribed to alldatadiy.com, now'd be a good time to look at it. Really inexpensive and very informative, especially for brakes.

-P

Mac2002 · #3 03-20-2009, 02:51 PM

I had a similar problem on my 2000 Windstar. The brake action, in a panic stop, sucked. Found one of these pins frozen in the caliper mounting bracket. Ended up removing the bracket and putting the head of the pin in a vice and twisting the bracket off of it. The pin was not rusty, but I think it was bent. Replaced both pins on that side (and lubricated all of the pins on both sides) and now have excellent braking.

AvalonJohn · #4 03-22-2009, 11:34 AM

Piper and Mac,

Thanks for your replies. I got new pins and brackets. Ford wanted $115 each for the brackets so I Cordarone A1 for $ 11 each plus shipping. Ford ripping people off again .... Motorcraft doesn't make the part.

Have one question however, The front pins are different. One is skinny towards the point end .... is that the top pin or bottom hole in the bracket ? Or is it idiot proof and they will only fit in the correct holes. I don't know which goes where since I can't get the old pins out.

Also think Calipers are ok since the inner pads (both sides) were worn. Maybe I didn't push piston in correctly when I did last brake job ?

Thanks,

AJ

northern piper · #5 03-22-2009, 04:58 PM

HI AJ

I have a 2000 and have never worked on a 99. I'd assume though that they're pretty similar. I just checked my alldata subscription to refresh myself but as I thought, there is no mention of a larger/smaller pin. They should move freely though if they're like the 2000 which I highly suspect they are. I don't know if you have a subscription to alldata, but it's really worth the $. Currently it's $15.95 for a year. If I were you, I'd go to the site http://www.alldatadiy.com, sign up and then you'll know for sure if there is a specific alignment etc on the pins. The other thing is, hi-temp is not the right lubricant to use. It is for the rotor to hub surface but not the pins. When you get a new set of pads, buy the hardware kit. It'll come with a small tube of silicone like material that is used for the sliders. Likely the high temp got hard on the sliders and stopped them from moving. I think the slider lubricant is called high-temp brake slider or something equally descriptive. It's almost clear, like vasoline, not grey like the high temp rotor lubricant.

Piper

AvalonJohn · #6 03-22-2009, 05:15 PM

Piper,

Thanks. I will follow your advice and sign up.

AJ

AvalonJohn · #7 03-25-2009, 09:44 AM

Piper,

Signed up. Doesn't show a difference. Any other ideas as which pins goes in top or bottom ... I'm lost

Avalon John

AvalonJohn · #8 03-25-2009, 10:20 AM

Actually,

Just got off phone with Raybestos. They said the pin that necks down uses a rubber sleeve that goes on it. That sleeve is found in the hardware kit. However, they still couldn't tell me if that bolt and sleeve go in the top of the caliper bracket or the bottom ? If anyone knows, please relpy as which hole the two different pins go in.

Thank,

AJ

northern piper · #9 03-25-2009, 11:53 AM

Hey AJ

I looked at mine and there is no difference between the top and bottom pin. Now mind you I have a 2000. Interestingly, when you go to the Rockauto website and look at the pins they sell for the 3.8 disk brakes, under the info tab they say the pins cover 1999 to 2003. So, I wonder if you're pins are like mine (ie: no difference in shoulder) and that replacement pin is for some other caliper. I think to be on the safe side I'd be calling a Ford stealership and asking one of their parts guys. I'm pretty friendly with my local Ford so if you don't get anywhere, pm me and I'll call them on your behalf.

Piper

AvalonJohn · #10 03-25-2009, 01:02 PM

nothern_piper,

Thank you. I just contacted Ford stealership. They told me that the one with the busing around it goes at the top .... they think ??? Could you do me a favor and check with your friend as well. I love a Ford parts guy telling me he thinks ??? about Ford/Motorcraft parts on a Ford vehicle. I initially tried a different dealership and they wouldn't tell me.

Thanks,
AJ

northern piper · #11 03-25-2009, 01:53 PM

Hey AJ

Just called my reliable source at Ford. The top and bottom oem pins on the 1999 windstar are identical and don't have the shoulder for the rubber sleeve. At my Ford dealership they sell the pins individually. If it were me, I'd be going to them and getting the oem ones. I asked if the ones you have will work and the reply was "likely" but hey, even if they're $12 each how much are brakes really worth when you need 'em? I think you should get the oem ones myself. The only thing he did say was if (IF) the calipers had been replaced with aftermarket ones than maybe the pins could be different. If they're oem they should be the same. Now, one other thing here, I'm in Canada. I know that my van was made in Windsor Ontario so there I suppose could be a really slight chance that a US part is different but I really doubt it. HTH

Piper

AvalonJohn · #12 03-25-2009, 03:26 PM

NP,

It's all starting to make sense now. The reason I don't remember which pin went in which hole was beacuse they are likely to be the same as you stated above. It also explains why the dealerships don't really know ? However, I now have two answers that say the pin with the rubber sleeve goes in the bottom, even though the one daelership said they go on the top .... he thinks?? Guess what, never taking my car to him !! Also to your point ... just get two more OEM for $ 30. Mine was made in Canada as well.

Thanks for all you help,

AJ

northern piper · #13 03-25-2009, 03:48 PM

one other thing not discussed but worth mentioning here. The Alldata.diy and Ford manuals all say that when you remove the caliper anchor bracket that the caliper anchor bolts should be discarded. The first time I did rotors and pads I did indeed discard the bolts, bought 4 new (at $12 ea) and felt good about the finished work. I asked my friend at Ford about this. He told me that they never replace the bolts with new. WTF?! So, after further conversation I learned that the bolts, new, have red loctite on them. Of course when you remove the bolts the loctite bond is broken. That's why they tell you to buy new. They could also say "use red loctite when reinstalling" but that's just not a Ford thing to do. Sooo, don't discard the bolts but do definitely get a bottle of red loctite and use it and properly torque the bolt.

-P

AvalonJohn · #14 03-26-2009, 10:27 AM

N/P,

I used old bolts and NO loctite but tightened to 85/ft lbs. Did same last time and was ok. Do you think I'll be ok ?

AJ

northern piper · #15 03-26-2009, 10:31 AM

I'd certainly be redoing the anchor bolts with new loctite for sure. They're easy to get to and can be done without removing anything (other than the bolt). Spin them out one at a time, make sure the threads are nice and clean, add red (not blue or green) loctite around 3/8" of the thread that is within the anchor plate and torque back to spec.

Would un-loctited bolts be ok? dunno. Not worth finding out if you ask me.

Piper

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