91 Ciera power windows

[Crazygirl]

None of the power windows in my 91 Ciera work. If it helps, it's 3.3 V6. My husband and I have replaced the motor in the driver's door, and a voltage meter confirms we're getting juice to the switch. I even replaced the switch in the door that controls all 4 windows from the driver's seat. I can't even get the other 3 windows to work independently. I pulled open the boot covering the wire where the door connects to the main frame, and the wiring looks okay. I'm at a loss as to what else it could be. I'm so frustrated I'm ready to ditch the stupid car. The air conditioning ironically only blows cold air in the winter; not exactly the time of year I need it to work! Even if I took the car to a shop to have the A/C converted, I still need my windows to work.

I have checked, rechecked, replaced, and re-replaced all the fuses, just to be sure, and the power locks work, so it's just the windows. Please, any suggestions someone may have would be greatly appreciated. The weather is cool enough right now that I'm safe to drive as is, but the thought of the summer heat makes me consider removing the rear windows where no one sits and just drive around like that. Ideas? Thanks!

[maxwedge]

Take a look at the body wiring diagrams at autozone.com/repairinfo to track this down, no quick answer, all circuit tracing.

[caddyman379]

I'm looking at a diagram right now. All of the motors get power from one pink wire, leading directly from the power window circuit breaker inside the fuse panel, inside the glovebox. It's first stop is the drivers side switch assembly, then over to all the other windows. So since none of the windows are working, it's either a broken wire between pink and the drivers door or a defective circuit breaker-which is only energized when ignition is in the ON postion, but it doesn't mention where it gets that energy from.

So check for power at the Pink wire at the drivers side switch assembly, if none, check at the fuse panel. If there's juice there, it's a break in the wire between the breaker and the door.

Here's the page with the diagram:http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d800f400f.jsp

Look at 1992 Engine Chassis wiring (continued)

Let me know how this works out!

Also, the air condtioner isn't working at all. It just happens to blow cold because the air outside is cold. Original untouched working A/Cs on cars this old is very rare.

[Crazygirl]

My husband took a look at it, and says that juice is definitely getting to the pink wire, but he was wondering if the problem might be the power window control module. However, we don't know where that's located, even after looking at the wiring diagram. (By the way, thank you both very much for that information, I'm going to print it off!). Is that in the door with the motor? Thanks, again, for the fantastic info!

[caddyman379]

I dont _think_ it's in the door with the motor. I have a 92 ciera 3.3 with power windows, and because our cars have Drivers automatic window down, thats what its for. On mine, if you hold the window down switch for the driver down for more than half a second and release, i hear a click from underneath the drivers side of the dash, then the window continues to roll down without my finger on the switch-then as it stops at bottom of the track, i hear another click from it.

thats just my theory of what it does i could be totally off. if it like controlled the power that the power window circuit breaker gets, then yeah that could be it. but i dunno.

i'll try to find my service manual and get back to this on you. if not, im doing some work on my carpet tomorrow and i'll find out where that clicking comes from-i bet it is the module.

[JohnDD]

Sounds like the ground (black wire) is missing on the driver's side switch assembly. I had the problem with my 91 Cutlass Ciera. The wire was broken inside the rubber tube between the door and the frame. I think I fixed it by just connecting the switch black wire to some metal part inside the door.
Over the years, I had several wires that broke inside the rubber tubing that caused the power windows to stop working.

[caddyman379]

i didn't even think of the grounds. certainly a possibility.

[Broken Tech]

I am Crazygirl's husband. I tried by-passing the the ground and am now hearing a clicking from around by the fuse box. I verified we are getting juice to the door. Is there a way to by-pass the switches so as to confirm the motors for the power windows are still working?

[JohnDD]

The clicking is probably the relay in the Power Window Control Module. The module (on my 91 Cutlass Ciera) only controls the driver side window. But the ground I mentioned in my earlier post, is required for any of the windows to work.

Did you try the switch for the other three windows when you had the ground by-passed? They should work, even if the control module is defective. Try all three of the other three doors with the by-passed ground in place.

To test any (except driver side) window motor, disconnect the dark-blue and the brn wires at the switch and put ground on one and +12 on the other. (If you don't disconnect the wires first, you could short the +12 to ground and pop the circuit breaker). Then reverse the two wires to get the window to go the other way.

Another way to test assumes that you have power at the other door switches (pink wire). At the passenger door switch, ground the Dark-Blue/white wire to allow the window to go down when the switch is pushed for DOWN. Change the ground to the tan wire to allow the window to go up when the switch is pushed for UP.

I'm still betting that you have an open ground connection (and maybe some other opens as well).

[Crazygirl]

My husband used test wires and did a temporary by-pass, and managed to get the windows to move. However, it only worked as long as the test wires were hooked up. We're thinking it might work to replace the power window control module, but there are a couple of problems. First, they don't sell it in auto repair stores; they told me my best bet would be to custom order through a dealership, or to go to a salvage yard. Second, even if we were able to locate one, we don't know where it's located on the car! Plus, if we were to get it replaced, would that enable me to operate all four doors from the master switch on the driver's door?

I'm getting frustrated because we're so close to completing it; I really want my windows to work, lol! On the plus side, I managed to get an instrument cluster to replace the one already on my car with the broken odometer. Yay! Now I will finally be able to keep track of my mileage.

Thanks for all the great suggestions you guys have supplied. You may just keep my dear car on the road after all.

[caddyman379]

you bypassed a ground and it worked? i can't access the autozone diagram right now, but i would screw that bypass into something that is a good ground and forget about it if it works. i think the windows use 1 common ground.

[Broken Tech]

We were able to confirm that part of the problem was the ground. The breakers may be another thing. Is there a difference between a breaker and a fuse?

[Broken Tech]

We were able to prove the motors are good by bypassing the ground wire and grounding it out to the body. One quick question. What is the difference between a breaker and a fuse? And if there is a diffeerence, where would the breaker be located at? Would they be the modules that are located in the engine compartment near the readiator support on the passenger side?

[Broken Tech]

I want to thank you all for all of your help. My wife and I were able to at least get the drivers and right rear window to work so that is something. I am just going to re-run the lines for the the left rear and right front windows. Once again Thanks.

[caddyman379]

The diff between the breaker and a fuse is that a circuit breaker is supposed to be self-resetting once the short is no longer present, whereas a fuse just blows and will need to be replaced to get the circuit into working order again. Unless the shorts still present, then the new fuse will just pop again.

Here's a thought, before you do that, look for a similar ground in the right front door panel. See what that brings up, since it may be easier. Let me know how it works out for you.

Also, the power window circuit breaker is inside the fuse box in the glovebox. It's one of the two silver breakers that pull out. Don't know which one it is though, sorry.