Looking for advice on a new project car...

[ShadowWulf]

Hey guys first post and this area seems appropriate for my question, being a genaral and very broad question.

Ok, im looking to put together a new budget project car, a project that would be starting around january and extend until she's done (time means nothing). However, im looking for something that has a minimal startup cost and that has great flexability and fun factor.

Ive built several cars already over the years (99 GSX Eclipse, 84 Firebird, 75 Firebird, 73 F-250 w/460, 90 CRX) so what im about to undertake, though ambitions, is something i believe that in time i can accomplish.

I understand every car will have its upsides and down, good points and bad. Some will be modular, others now. However at this time since i live in California im looking at cars ONLY built before 1974 so as to dodge smog laws...and that means alot of them are more expensive, something i need to avoid in the initial costs.

So far cars ive considered:
1960-1974 Cadillacs with a 500 ci swapped in (capable of over 600hp built, fat and heavy but unique if built for POWER) priced around $2K, and my current favorite for "neat" reasons and engine size.

1960's Dodge Dart (smaller, but goofy looking and has a smaller engine bay limiting oversized motor swaps) around $2K

1970's Firebird (done it, PITA to motor swap and expensive in the long run) also around $2K if i start with a smaller motor version.

1970's Mustang (small, light, dirt cheap, common as heck...but i hate fords..) also around $3K

Damn i know theres more i was considering but its early and im drawing a blank...

anyways toss some ideas out there for me. This is NOT going to be a pretty-in-pink restoration btw, nor does Sex Appeal matter to me. All im looking for is shear balls-to-the-wall power. From a 402 ci or larger motor im hoping to build for around 600+ hp but hopefully pull closer to 700+ tq. Maybe not entirely streetable, but i believe it can be done on a budget in ones spare time over the course of a year or so.....
i just need to make up my mind on a car first!

[GreyGoose006]

i'd say go with the caddy.
i dont know what year it is, but a guy across the street has an obviously pre 74 eldorado or fleetwood. there are no decals or anything so i'm not really sure what it is, but its a cool car.

if you put the right motor in it would be a great cruiser and would do pretty well on the highway. not sure you would ever get it into the 12 second 1/4 mile range, but thats fine.

[ShadowWulf]

Yea, thats the reason im sidding with caddys right now is a nice combo of comfort (what i decide not to strip out at least) and a massive engine bay and a beefy well built frame that should be able to hold the torque levels im after.

Also, im not honestly worried about 1/4 mile times either....i just realy love motors and im looking for something that will absolutly SCREAM on its own accord, race times be damned. Of course id have to go with the 500 ci motor in a caddy, accept no substitues.

But, anybody have any other ideas?

[TheSilentChamber]

Where are 70's mustangs dirt cheep?

[curtis73]

Intermediate GMs (the A body) are super dirt cheap, they have a full-frame chassis, incredible aftermarket support, and you can fit one of those caddy 500s in them The Caddy makes a good swap into almost anything. Keep in mind that with headers and an aluminum intake, they weigh the same as a SBC with an iron intake and manifolds.

How about a C4 vette? I know where there is an 89 for sale right now for $5500 in nice shape, so a project would be even cheaper.

I have a 74 Maverick 302/C4 that is a perfect project. I'd let it go for cheap, but I think I have someone interested in it.

Station wagon, station wagon, station wagon

B-body full size GMs have great aftermarket support, and parts basically from 97 back to 64 (71 for chevy) mostly swap between each other. I'm using 1996 Impala SS springs in a 1966 Pontiac Bonneville.

Find yourself a 78-88 GM G-body with the olds diesel in it. Smog exempt. Then you can drop in a 635 Merlin block if you wanted.

And by the way, the magic year is 1976. I forget if 76 is exempt, or everythign before 76 is exempt.

One of my favorite passtimes is to go to Ebay and browse by lowest price first. You find some really neat and weird stuff.

[ShadowWulf]

Hummm, now thats what i wanted to hear. I hadnt even really considered the G-Bodys (because theyre rather uncommon around here from what ive seen) but now i will have to look into that...excemption is very important to me living in SoCal, and diesels are fun.

And station waggons are also dirt cheap being an "Undesired" vehicle in california. But the smog year according to the DMV website was 1975, so i just go one year under to be on the safe side.

Oh and to TheSilentChamber being in California mustangs of most any vintage post-69 are so ridiculously common it actually annoys me. I understand ford had great marketing and good sales, but man i cannot do or go anywhere without seeing over a dozen in various conditions all day long.

[534BC]

I definately suggest the Caddy 500 in a smaller car. I'tll be a fairly cheap swap and if geared up will still fly. If by chance you want to build a 534 blown cad ( I know someone who has done it)

[UncleBob]

whatever you do, turbo it

I have been playing with simular ideas. Low cost. Emission reg avoiding. Sick.

I've been watching craigslist in my area, just browsing the under-$1000 range, to see if anything pops up that peaks my interest. Have seen a few cars that were good potential. 80's camero's seem to be popular. Lots of under-the-hood space for what I'd need. Doesn't look horrible....but I'm not a big fan of 80's camero's (emission regs in this state is 25 years, ie, a 1981 doesn't require testing this year, next year, 82's will also be exempt ect)

But I was just going to go with the el-cheapo run-of-the-mill 350 sbc with a turbo for 1000hp or so. Nothing all that original.

[534BC]

Haha, turbo aggreed. The big caddy makes a nice mild turbo engine 5-7 pounds with stock stuff . I have to wait a long time before getting into hot rodding.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by ShadowWulf

But the smog year according to the DMV website was 1975, so i just go one year under to be on the safe side.

Guess that answers my question. Evidently its pre-76

Thought of another one. How about an oddball swap, like a turbo slant 6 in a Hillman Minx, or a Toyota 5EFE into a british roadster?

One of the things I always loved doing is taking the car that I wanted (style) and overcoming its flaws. Brits of that era were never really reliable, so I thought of putting the most reliable engine in it I could think of. My 73 station wagon's weakness is fuel mileage, so I'm going to convert it to diesel.

Think of it that way. Poke around Ebay and find the car that you want and then research if its viable to overcome its "weakness" based on your abilities and talents. Always a crowd pleaser at the cruise-ins.

I always wanted to drive up in my 73 Impala wagon and have people ask me how I deal with the gas prices, and I could just pop the hood and show them a 30-mpg diesel.

[ShadowWulf]

I have already considered going with a custom turbo system as i can fab the tubing myself. However a turbo large enough to do much good on a 500+ ci motor is going to be rather difficult to find, and running a twin setup just doubles the cost of the associated materials.

For now i was going (this is all speculation until i have the actual block + heads before, and the chasis to drop it all in) i was proably going to build it mid-compression (again that definition varies from motor to motor) leaving both options of a full N/A setup with the ability to drop in boost (SC, Turbo, N20) if needed and not really comprimise either setup too severly.

Sound about right? (Figure 9.5 CR on average, decent all motor on 91 octane but the ability to run boost if so wished with at the most having to drop in a H20 or Propane injection system to cool the intake charge a bit...)


Im also looking at cars in the 2-3K price bracket for financial reasons, and the motor im prepared to spend around $8-9K on over the course of a year, all labor being done by myself except detail machine work which well..i dont own a machine shop so ill have to hire out.

Again this is just a basic overlay of what i want to acomplish...and yes 1000+ HP may also be possible (well it is on that money...but...) it also needs to be driveable on the street. I dont build cars to look pretty, i build em to drive them, every day, everywhere possible.

[Black Lotus]

Almost bought a completed one of these from a guy at work but I got outbid. Took flying lessons instead...
It's mid-engined so it has my seal of approval.
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/crown1.html

[sydwayz13]

have you thougt of a ford falcon their fairly cheap to build and you dont see them around much.plus parts arent that hard to get

[UncleBob]

Originally Posted by ShadowWulf

I have already considered going with a custom turbo system as i can fab the tubing myself. However a turbo large enough to do much good on a 500+ ci motor is going to be rather difficult to find, and running a twin setup just doubles the cost of the associated materials.

large holeshot turbo's off of diesel applications go on ebay for $200 now and then. Even if you went with a "smaller" turbo and went for twins, you could still do it for less than the price of a new single large turbo.

But a single turbo capable of 1000+hp is far from hard to find. Although you would be looking at around $2k for a new one.

Its all about how frugal you want to be

[curtis73]

Caddys don't like to rev, so the turbo can be pretty small and still be effective. Many caddy guys turbo with one and keep their RPMs under 4500 or 5000. Not trying to talk you into a turbo since its a bit more complicated, but its very do-able.