Streetable turbos-need opinions

[Igovert500]

Hey, I'm not sure if I'm even actually asking a specific question, or just writing this to get some thoughts that have been bouncing around inside my head, out.

But essentially, I am back to a state of indecision regarding future upgrades. I'm the type of person who researches every aspect of any potential upgrade...I wanna do it right the first time.
I'm having difficulty deciding on how big I want to go. Essentially, after my initial research I had decided on 15Gs, then I started reading more and more and the DR650s became an option. I wasn't sure if I just wanted to go middle of the road fast, or slightly faster than middle of the road upgrade. I thought I didn't want 13Gs and DR500s, and that anything larger than DR650s would be overkill for me...but this last week or so I've read at least 300 pages on 3si regarding the issues, and I'm back to an even more broad decision.

Essentially, I want a streetable car. Over the last few years I've only made it to the track once or 2x a year. I'm hoping to go more, but I honestly don't know if I will. So being that this will be mainly street, and the fact that all I keep hearing is Matt Monett says DR500s are the best street turbo...no lag, torque monsters, etc... they are becoming an option I'm bouncing around

Yet I don't want to go too small the first time. I also keep hearing that 13Gs and DR500s are too small for some, and I'm worried I'd fit in that category. I know that the DR500s are underrated, and I know that I am probably mentally downsizing them, but they still seem small to me.

DR650s: Many say they wont shine as well on the street. 14-17psi they are close to the DR500s, but after that, when you start pushing 20psi or more, they really open up a gap on the DR500s. But how often am I really going to be pushing that kind of boost? Essentially, propane would be a must, intercoolers and stage 2 or 3 heads would help a ton, but right there is another 5 grand in parts...yet it seems that there are enough people doing street driven DR650 powered 3Ss.

15Gs, not as huge as 650s, but still up there, I could run with 550cc rather than 680+, and essentially everything else would stay just one step easier in tuning and cheaper in parts.

I don't want to go overkill, but at the same time, I have alot of ls1 owners who are in an HP race, and I wanna prove the 3/S deserves their utmost respect (and I like talking trash to them).

I'm just toying with which setup to go with, DR500s with tons of supporting/bolt ons and such; 15Gs with basic tuning and supporting mods, DSM or equivalent IC; or DR650s with timing control, propane, costly IC, possibly headwork, etc.

I'm sure some of you know the rest of the arguments if you have researched yourselves. I'm just interested in some comments/thoughts. Also, for anyone who has upgraded turbos (even/esp. those with TD05s), what do you have, how streetable do you consider your setup, how many times do you go to the track a year, what kinds of boost on what kind of fuel do you typically run?

I almost want others to justify me going the route of DR650s, but at the same time I want some to try and 'knock some sense into me' and say go a bit smaller. I talked to one friend online and appreciate his advice, but at the same time he doesn't know much about turbos or 3kgts, and just keeps saying DR500s, because I told him they had the title of "best streetable turbo". So yeah, sorry for rambling, but anyone have any thoughts?

[youngvr4]

well, you say 14-17 its still streetable, i mean what are you gonna be racing on the street thats gonna take more than 17psi on dr650's? a viper srt-10?

anyway, i think dr650. why cause you can controll your boost and if you really need to go big you have it, if you dont need to go big drop it.

i just feel you have a better range with teh dr650's

i havnt done much research on them and dont know much abou them.
but if they are still fine and streetable at 14-17 or even 18-19 psi then why not?

then when you need to kick in the big stuff when you see that mercialago on the street, you got that too

[Boosted1]

If it were me, I'd probably be doing the DR650's. You're not going tooo crazy like DR1000's or anything. Young is right, you have more range and if you need the extra power, it's there. Head work and stuff like that may not be absolutely mandatory to run well with those turbos...of course they would improve performance, but I'm not sure if you would NEED to do those extensive modifications. I'm not an expert or anything, but that's my opinion. Keep us posted.

[Igovert500]

Well the headwork wouldn't be mandatory...it would be begging for bigger intercoolers though. Both would allow for more power on pumpgas.

Ok, so 2 for DR650s....anyone else

[Linebckr49]

my vote is in for the DR650s. the DFW (dallas-ft.worth) 3S crew recently got together for another dyno day. a guy from 3si (eyeluvmy3kgt) who is from Arkansas drove down, with the DR650 setup on his ride. he threw down some nice numbers, about 330hp/365tq, and that's with a very mild tune. he did have the IC hard pipes, but stock ICs, i think. shoot him a PM on 3si.org. i'm sure he could help you get some frist hand knowledge about those things. basically there's much much more power in those turbos...he had a bunch of boost leaks and a FMIC would have helped too.

[Hotshot8792]

3/S aftermarket has expanded over the last year. Those, of course, are the traditional turbos, but dont leave out other options.

There's always the TD05 14B option. Now, the pain about this is finding adapter plates and the td05 conversion kit. All in all, used 14B's and TD05 conversion with adapter plates will probably cost around $1200. Now, IPO is coming out with a TD05 kit, which will probably be affordable from what i've heard from him, so we'll see. These turbos have shown 480+ AWHP and even more torque.

There's also the 13T option. You can have these directly bolt on for $900. Two WRX turbos with low miles, as in 20K and less will cost you around $300, and then Rob Beck does his service for $600 which makes them direct bolt on. You just either send him your stock turbine housings or use his for a core charge. 13T's are said to have the power of a 15G turbo but the lag of a stock 9b. 13T owners claim that they spool up instantly, and recent dyno on 3SI has shown 472 AWHP / 511 AWTQ.

Now, if you want to go even bigger, you can do what i did and do the 18T's. They will go over 500+ AWHP at around 18 PSI. These turbos will outdo the DR650s as far as power, and lag shows they fully spool b/t 3500 and 4000 rpms, not as streetable, but makes up for it on top end. I had a local shop do all the boring out that rob beck does and i did the rest myself, but its the same concept as the 13T's. Just buy a pair of 18T's brand new from forcedperformance.net and send them off to rob beck. These will be around $1800 for everything.

Just thought i'd throw in a couple more options for you.

[Igovert500]

Yeah, I was aware of all those options, but at this point I'm leaning more towards staying on the "beaten" path. I'm hesitant of going too big with the TD-05s, and the fact that I would need adaptor plates. Thanks for the suggestions though. I'm thinking DR650s are the way to go, but still welcoming more comments.

[Hotshot8792]

Originally Posted by Igovert500

Yeah, I was aware of all those options, but at this point I'm leaning more towards staying on the "beaten" path. I'm hesitant of going too big with the TD-05s, and the fact that I would need adaptor plates. Thanks for the suggestions though. I'm thinking DR650s are the way to go, but still welcoming more comments.

i personally still prefer the T series turbos as far as TD04s go. The 13T's outperform DR500s with less lag, and the 18T's give more top end then DR650s with roughly the same lag. The T series compressor wheels are lighter wheels which is why they put out good numbers with less lag to comparable turbos.

[Igovert500]

Hotshot, if they are out performaning dr650s, than aren't your 450ccs WAY too small? Also how do you feel the daily driveability of your car is, not including the high stall-factor? Do you run constant alky injection? And what kind of boost are you running on a daily basis?

[Hotshot8792]

Originally Posted by Igovert500

Hotshot, if they are out performaning dr650s, than aren't your 450ccs WAY too small? Also how do you feel the daily driveability of your car is, not including the high stall-factor? Do you run constant alky injection? And what kind of boost are you running on a daily basis?

to tell you honestly, i've probably only put 300 miles on the car since i dropped the 18T's in, i have not gone WOT due to timing problems in which i just installed an e-manage to maintain. Yes, my 450cc's are too small, which is why i have an FPR which ups it to around 550, but remember my high compression ratio as well so i can't run nearly as much boost. I will go for 15 PSI on pump gas with alky and timing retard and see what i can do. All i know is that 1 or 2 members on 3SI have both dynoed easily over 500 AWHP with the 18T's, and i believe they were less than 20 psi. This gave them mid to low 11s, grant it, these turbos are capable of 10s without nitrous. Driveability with it is not bad at all,

[Thourun]

I'm also already thinking about biger turbos even though I just bought a VR4 and havent even driven it home yet. It would be over a year before I get them due to money and all that but I would probably be shooting for 450+AWHP with meth injection when the boost goes up to be able to boost a bit higher on 93 octane. From what Hotshot is saying it seems as though the 13Ts are somwhere between DR500s and 15Gs which is probably right where I (and Igovert500) are looking to be in terms of power potental. I havent done much research yet since any turbo upgrade for me would be way off in the future but my vote goes for more reading up on the 13Ts, but if they turn out to not be right I say DR650s. One question though, what is the best flowing and spooling turbo setup for the 17-22 psi range?

[Gateway]

the 13T turbo is better than the 15G turbo.

[Thourun]

Realy? I need to look at a flow chart.

[Hotshot8792]

according to jeff luscious on stealth316, the 13T flows the same as a 15G, plus the 13T's spool up faster then any aftermarket turbo. And like i said previously, someone just dyno'd a 13T 3/S at 472 AWHP/ 511 AWTQ

[Igovert500]

Originally Posted by Thourun

Realy? I need to look at a flow chart.

What sucks is as far as I know, DR is keeping their compressors specs a secret, so there are no available flow charts for the DR500s, 650s 800s, 1000s, etc...(if I'm wrong, somebody please correct me)