98 3.8L GL Transmission Leak

[Freakzilla69]

Driving on the interstate this morning, I looked in the rear view mirror and noticed my James Bond smoke screen had been activated. Then I remembered...

I don't have a smoke screen!

Turns out it was transmission fluid leaking on the exhaust. Badly. I coasted into my office parking lot, transmission no longer functioning. The dipstick looked dry and there's a puddle of transmission fluid about a foot wide underneath. It looks like it was leaking from between the transmission and engine.

A little history...

Set the way-back machine for about three years ago, I had the transmission rebuilt because the overdrive was stuck off. It ran fine afterwards but I parked it because I couldn't get it to pass emmission (lean fuel codes). Moving forward to a couple months ago, I rebuilt it from the block up, and of course, it still didn't pass emissions but the money I spent on parts qualified me for the waiver. I noticed it shifted a little roughly at certain speeds. Shifting was fine at low speed and high speeds, just at moderate speeds it was a little rough.

I bought this van used and it has a tow bar on it. I've read that some Windstars came with a towing package (WTF? This transmission can barely pull the van itself, who in their right mind would tow anything with it?) but while rebuilding the top half of the engine I didn't notice any extra transmission cooler so I think the tow bar was added by the previous owner. I believe it's supposed to be mounted near the power steering pump, correct?

I know absolutely nothing about transmissions other than what they do.

Any ideas what could cause it to blow out so suddenly and empty the fluid on the road? Is it worth rebuilding the transmission AGAIN? Last time it cost about $1,300. Other than the mechanical difficulties I've had, it's a great van for my family of six and I don't want a new car payment. I'm tired of spending money like Obama on it, though.



Any advice or suggestions will be appreciated.

[Freakzilla69]

I'd like to add that this was durring my daily commute across Atlanta, speeds vary from stop-and-go traffic for the first half of the 55 mile trip to 90+ mph on the latter half.

I've read on some older topic that the transmission seal can leak when overheated.

Should I fill it up with fluid and attempt to drive it? Slowly?

[Freakzilla69]

Update: I was wrong about the fluid level. There is still a little fluid on the end of the dipstick and it's still red.

[wiswind]

The Factory towing package will have a combined transmission/ power steering cooler in front of the radiator......below the bumper.
They are actually 2 separate coolers, but are connected together.
All of our windstars have a transmission cooler INSIDE the radiator......inside the passenger side, side tank, of the radiator.
The transmission fluid flows out.....through a line that is below the radiator......over to the passenger side....and UP to the TOP of the back side of the side tank......the hot fluid flows IN the top, and OUT the bottom connector on the side tank.....and back to the transmission.
On the factory towing package setup, the fluid flows out the bottom connector on the side tank.....and out in front of the radiator.....through the auxillary cooler, before returning to the transmission.
Of course, many of us have added a auxillary cooler for the transmission on our own.

There may also be a engine oil cooler, which is located between the oil filter and the oil pump......and has coolant lines going to it.
The engine oil cooler is a heat exchanger....using the coolant to carry heat from the motor oil.

As far as what to do with your transmission......I have not read good things about any "stop leak" type of transmisssion additives.....
There may be something good....but I am not trusting of that as our transmissions use fluid solenoids (valves) that are VERY sensitive to "particles" in the fluid.....and are prone to gum up....and not work....

It sounds like you need to get the leak fixed.......perhaps a leaking seal.
Of course.....low on fluid will certainly cause drivability problems.....so who knows.....it might work fine with the correct fluid level (Mercon V rated fluid).

When my tranny became problematic at around 100K miles.....I bit the bullet and got a genuine FORD remanufactured unit.....which cost more that twice your rebuild (installed)....boy did that hurt......but I now have over 110K miles on the replacement transmission......to which I had added a big auxillary cooler and went to yearly fluid exchanges which I do myself.
My plan was to only face the problem 1 time.......which time will tell if it end up being true.

NOW....VERY IMPORTANT..... FORD has issued a TSB on this.....the in-radiator transmission cooler can become partially-or completely clogged with junk when a transmission fails.......causing the replacement transmission to overheat.
So, I would HIGHLY recommend you verify that you have good fluid flow through the cooler line.

Also, I found that my low speed radiator fan dropping resistor had broken.....causing me to not have low speed radiator fan function.....just high speed.
This resistor has a ceramic body.....is mounted on TOP of the metal bumper.....you can see it when you look down behind the passenger side headlight.
To test, turn your A/C ON......the radiator fans should come ON and STAY ON whenever your vehicle is moving below a certain speed.....so this is an easy test to do in the driveway.
In stop and go traffic, I set the climate control to a setting that has the A/C active....keeping my radiator fans running....which keeps the transmission cooler, as wel as the motor.

[Freakzilla69]

There's two lines coming from the transmission, one goes to the bottom drivers side of the radiator, the other to the top passenger side. There isn't any aux cooler in front of the radiator that I can see, just a line that makes a loop in front of it.

I will check for the oil cooler next smoke break.

I have noticed that it runs better with the AC on. Not that it runs bad, just that occasionally it will stall if I break suddenly after starting from a stop or when breaking in reverse. I'm pretty sure I can hear the radiator fans running when in park with the AC on but I will check after I deal with this leak.

I plan to fill it up with Mercon V and see how it does Friday and will report back...

[wiswind]

The line that loops in front of the radiator is the power steering cooler that is found on the windstars that came from the factory WITHOUT the towing package.
I have this same line in front of my radiator.

If it runs fine with new fluid......I would do a fluid exchange real soon.
This may sound strange, but this will give the new fluid a chance to rinse out the transmission and you will flush any crud that it picks up out with the fluid exchange.
If you do the fluid exchange yourself, unhook the line that comes back from the cooler, so that the fluid will flow out through the cooler (inside the radiator) and then into your container before it enters the transmission.....giving you the opportunity to verify that you have fluid flow through the cooler at idle.

[Freakzilla69]

Thanks for the advice, If I can get it home I'll do as you suggest.

Thanks again.

[glennet404]

Hello-

The first thing you want to do id try to determine the source of the leak.

1-Add some transmission fluid - if you still have some on the end of the dipstick you can easily add a quart without fear of overfilling.

2-I suggest you drive your vehicle over a piece of cardboard to soak up the leaking fluid. Or maybe even have a shallow pan handy.

3-With the motor running - and hood open - try to determine where the leak originates. Maybe with some luck - you sprung a leak in one of the metal lines that carries transmission fluid to and from the cooler inside the radiator.- which would be an easy repair.

4- If indeed you are leaking between the engine/transmission connection.
Then youv'e got a bigger problem because your front transmission seal is probably the culprit - and would require removing the tranny to fix. This however does not mean a rebuilt transmission - just a $10.00 seal. But getting the transmission out is the trick !! I suspect you may be able to get this job done for $400 - $500

If it were me - given the circumstances - I would probably try something like the Lucas Transmission Repair product that has recently been discussed on this site. There are pros and cons (do some research and draw your own conclusion) - and while I'm not generally a big proponent of additives - in this case there may be a lot to gain without much downside.

One further observation - if you find it leaking from the tranny/engine connection - and it's leaking heavily in large drops or even a small stream - forget the additive - it's not gonna work.

Good Luck
Glenn

[Freakzilla69]

When this happened I looked underneath and I'm pretty sure it's the seal between the engine and transmission. It must be a heavy leak, judging by the cloud of smoke I left behind on the interstate. At first I thought a coolant hose had come loose until I noticed my temperature wasn't rising. There were good sized drops coming out, enough to make nearly a foot wide puddle on the pavement beneath. I'm almost certain it wasn't one of the cooling lines, I was hoping for that and looked. They're easy to see and were dry.

Last time I checked it, only a couple weeks ago, it was a little low I put some conditioner in it. Don't remember what brand. Could the conditioner itself have caused it?

I think the best I can hope for right now is replacing the seal. Luckily I was at my exit when it happened and I only went maybe a mile further. I hope it wasn't too much and there's no damage to the transmission itself.

[glennet404]

Yeah- it doesn't sound as though any brand of trans fix will help you out.

The way these conditioners work to stop leaks - they have additives that soften then swell the rubber components - in theory swelling the rubber enough to fill any gap between mating surfaces to stop a leak.

Could this have contributed to your problem - you bet - if you had an old seal it could have softened it to mush and disitegrated. That's the double edge sword when using these additives. You really need to be at a last resort stage before using them.

Don't feel too bad - I'll tell you my additive story. My first car at 18 years old was a Triumph TR-3. I bought it in VERY rough condition and after several weeks of a rookie suffering through scraped knuckles it was finally road worthy. My first road test of a few miles revealed the telltale stream of blue smoke. My neighbor across the street assured me that adding a can of STP would be just the remedy to reduce the smoke trail. Being young AND stupid I bit - well I added the STP and drove my TR-3 for another 2-3 miles before I spun a rod bearing sitting at a stop light. So I drove my cherised TR-3 a total of 4-5 miles before I was looking at the prospect of replacing the motor. Did the STP cause the failure -
can't say for sure - but I suspect it did.

NUF SAID - my use of ANY additive other than the standard fluids is as a last resort.

BTW - I ended up getting a TR-4 motor out of a wreck - and enjoyed my TR-3 for several year before moving onto a TR-6.

Good Luck-
Glenn

[wiswind]

If, for some reason, the transmission is overheating, this could cause fluid to come out.
If the transmission was overfilled with fluid......it could also cause the leak.

As mentioned.......I would hold little hope for an additive solving the problem for more than a slight drip.

I would put verification of flow through the cooler high on your priority list.

On my '96, I do a yearly fluid exchange......with a pan drop (with filter change) every other year.
I usually have a Magnefine inline filter in the cooler line for additional filtration......it filters smaller particles than the factory filter inside the pan.

About 1000 to 2000 miles before I do the fluid exchange, I add about 9 ounces of AutoRX, available online.
This is to clean the transmssion.

The pictures that the link in my signature take you to have a series of something like 12 pictures of the transmission service that I do.....that includes the pan drop.
The pan drop is messy.
The FORD documentation does not call for the factory filter to be changed in over 100 miles of use.......although a fluid exchange is a MUST AT LEAST every 30K miles as per the FORD documentation.
The FORD documentation now states to use Mercon V rated fluid in ALL windstars.

[Freakzilla69]

I topped it off with about six quarts and drove around my office building until it got hot, no leaks. It made it about thirty miles on the surface roads towards home before it started slipping, I pulled it into a parts store and put in a bottle of Lucas and topped it off with another five quarts, that Mercon V is $4 a quart, BTW. It was dripping badly but I thought I might make it. It only made it a couple of miles after that and I left it by the side of the road. Fluid was pouring out in a steady stream. It ran pretty good it seems until the transmission got hot and then it just pours out. It's only about five miles from home, if I fill it back up it might make it. Since it runs well enough with fluid in it I'm inclined to think the transmission itself is still salvageable and it just needs a seal, I'm afraid to drive it more in fear of doing some real damage.

The shop that rebuilt it last time (and I only got about four months of driving out of it with two years parked between) is only a few miles from where it's parked, I could have them tow it to their shop. My wife doesn't like that idea, she doesn't think they did a good job rebuilding it. She doesn't take into consideration the two years it sat in the driveway though. As I've said, it seemed to run good to me up until the seal blew.

Should I give them another chance? Maybe if I give them my sob story they'll give me a break?

I've also recently rebuilt this engine from the block up in order to try to clear the infamous lean codes yet it eludes me. I'm at the point where I've spent so much money on it I can't stand the idea of letting it go yet I'm afraid to put more money into it.

Looks like my best bet now is to have the shop tow it in and fix the leak, maybe they can diagnose my P0171/P0174 codes while they're at it, too. What do y'all think?

In the mean time I'll have to rely on my Cadillac with a missing bearing and low oil pressure. (It's not actually missing, I found it in the oil pan.) I'm starting to think it might be better to fix the CAddy, at least it passes emmissions.

[wiswind]

It sounds like it would be worth getting that seal replaced.
The lean codes are a separate issue....less serious.
Common causes are vaccum leaks, check that PCV line....I got a crack in the inside of the 90 degree elbow on the top of the upper intake manifold.

The other thing that I would do is replace the fuel filter and put a couple cans of Berryman's B-12 Chemtool (metal can) in a full tank of gasline.....to clean the fuel injectors.

[Freakzilla69]

The shop quoted me $520 for labor to check the seal. He tried to turn the work down when I told him I had a leaky Windstar transmission until I told him they rebuilt it last time. I'll have them make sure the ATF flows through the radiator well, too. I should also have them test the fuel pressure, I checked it not too long ago and it was OK but I think the pump may be struggling while it's driving. The fuel pump is a job I don't really have time for. I'd bet on there not being any vacuum leaks. I put on a new hose-assembly recently and have replaced a few of the other vacuum lines. I have until Septemer at least to worry about that, though.

My Haynes manual says up to '98 use Mercon ATF and '99 and after use Mercon V, is that still true? Mine is a '98 and that Mercon V is pricey.

[glennet404]

Just a suggestion -

But the job to replace that front seal is a straight forward mechanical
procedure that is made ever easier with the hydraulic lift that most garages have.

What I'm saying here is that this job doesn't necessarily have to be done by a dedicated transmission shop (BTW- where the shop rates are generally higher than a standard garage).

It may be worthwhile to call around to a few general repair shops and find out the cost to drop the transmission and replace the front seal.

Good Luck -
Glenn