Cost of repairs to a 87 Caprice Estate

[Teddie]

I have reading this forum for a while, but now, with a Caprice of my own I have a few questions that I hope you can help answering. Miscellaneous repairs need to be done and I am trying to figure out the cost, find out their severity, and what can I ignore.

The front tires have negative camber which I would like to repair and there may be a few things causing this. The front suspension sags much more than the rear and the car pulls to the right when I let go of the wheel. How much would this cost to repair?

The car usually has a smell of gas around it (nothing leaking), occasionally diesels, and gets around 15MPG which when reading around seems low. I have yet to learn how do do tune ups or rebuild carburettors and am wondering how much a tune up costs.

Does the timing chain have to be replaced every 100K miles and if so what is the price?

The car uses oil (maybe a quart or so a month) and in the event that the check engine light comes on (which is rare) there is a moderate loss of power. What could be causing the loss of power and is that level of oil consumption "normal?"

On the driver side front door near the side view mirror (on the somewhat flat part) there is some rust and now a hairline crack that worries me, but I can just buy an other door if needed. both front doors sag, but I am not worrying about that right now.

I have just found out about POR15 (a rust stopper) and am curious to see if anyone has used it with success.

If the post is too long or annoying in some way feel free to politely inform me.

[Blue Bowtie]

Welcome Aboard!

The front tires have negative camber which I would like to repair and there may be a few things causing this. The front suspension sags much more than the rear and the car pulls to the right when I let go of the wheel. How much would this cost to repair?

A 1987 Caprice will have shims between the upper control arm mount and frame. Camber and caster are both adjusted by placement of the shims.

However, prior to adjusting the shims, make sure the ride height is correct. The unequal length control arm arrangement (longer lower arm) will cause negative camber if the ride height is lower than designed. Ride height will also have a minor effect on caster, which will contribute to the "pull" you report.

As for cost, if you have the equipment and time, you can get replacement front springs for $85/pair (Coil Springs) . This alone may solve much of the problem. Plan on at least four hours to replace both springs.

The car usually has a smell of gas around it (nothing leaking), occasionally diesels, and gets around 15MPG which when reading around seems low. I have yet to learn how do do tune ups or rebuild carburettors and am wondering how much a tune up costs.

That is a list of symptoms consistent with a rich fuel mixture. The fact that the CHECK ENGINE light is on may be affecting that. There may also be other factors, such as carburetor adjustment and cleaning, maintenance items, such as filters and hoses, ignition system service, and mechanical damage.

Does the timing chain have to be replaced every 100K miles and if so what is the price?

The timing chain and sprockets should be replaced when the chain is stretched. Some wear out at 60,000 miles, some last 300,000 miles. It is not a normal scheduled maintenance item like the timing belts used on OHC engines. A new timing set with gaskets should cost less than $100 in parts, including the coolant you would replace as part of the job. Labor is an entirely different story.

The car uses oil (maybe a quart or so a month) and in the event that the check engine light comes on (which is rare) there is a moderate loss of power. What could be causing the loss of power and is that level of oil consumption "normal?"

That's two questions. First, if you drive 6,000 miles a month, that level of oil consumption is not unusual for a high mileage engine. If you drive 1,000 miles a month, that is excessive. There can be many reasons for oil consumption, including engine wear, external leakage, internal leakage, a malfunctioning PCV valve, and incorrect or contaminated engine oil. Without additional information, it will be difficult to comment.

Second, when the "CHECK ENGINE" light is on, the ECM may be operating in a Backup Fuel and Spark Mode. In this mode, there is no control over the feedback carburetor, no ignition timing advance, and possibly loss of other functions. Without fuel mixture control and ignition advance, your fuel mileage will suffer, emissions will be higher, and driveability will suffer. Finding out why the CHECK ENGINE light is on is easy, and may be important in solving the problems.

I have just found out about POR15 (a rust stopper) and am curious to see if anyone has used it with success.

That and other coatings can work effectively to stop rust damage, but only if the surface preparation is performed as directed. There is nothing that can simply be sprayed or brushed on which will stop rust if surface preparation is not done first. Applying the product is the easy part. Grinding away all the old rusted metal and preparing the surface is the hard part.

If the post is too long or annoying in some way feel free to politely inform me.

If anything, the separate topics should be split into separate threads since the replies will become very confusing. As for the length, use as much space as is necessary to provide all the relevant information. More information and detail is never a bad thing.

[Teddie]

Thank you for all the helpful advice Blue Bowtie.

Let me see, 2K miles from late April 08 to late September 08, about a quart between those two dates, and was down to about 2 quart by late August 08 out of 5.4 (Sorry, put down the pitchforks), so there you go. I do not need a car right now so I only run it once in a while.

So this looks like a $500 dollar plus job to get a tuneup, fix the camber, the rust, change the oil, get it to stop running rich, and rotate the tires. Is that about right?

[94HeavyChevy]

the parts alone for the tune up will be somewhere around 200 bucks for plugs, wires, air filter, fuel filter and pcv valve if applicable and 85 for the front springs. so for those two jobs alone you are looking at 285-low 300s in just parts. Labor for the tune up probably 2 hours or so and like blue bowtie said about 4 hours for the front springs. So you are looking at 6 hours alone in labor for those 2 jobs. Estimate 80 an hour times 6 hours is 480 in labor plus 300 in parts so somewhere around 800 bucks just for those 2 jobs. When is the last tuneup this vehicle had? Plugs and wires will usually last a solid 100,000 miles so if you just pull one of the plugs out and look at it or take it to someone that has done tune ups before they will let you know if it should be changed.

[silicon212]

Originally Posted by 94HeavyChevy

the parts alone for the tune up will be somewhere around 200 bucks for plugs, wires, air filter, fuel filter and pcv valve if applicable and 85 for the front springs. so for those two jobs alone you are looking at 285-low 300s in just parts. Labor for the tune up probably 2 hours or so and like blue bowtie said about 4 hours for the front springs. So you are looking at 6 hours alone in labor for those 2 jobs. Estimate 80 an hour times 6 hours is 480 in labor plus 300 in parts so somewhere around 800 bucks just for those 2 jobs. When is the last tuneup this vehicle had? Plugs and wires will usually last a solid 100,000 miles so if you just pull one of the plugs out and look at it or take it to someone that has done tune ups before they will let you know if it should be changed.

Where do you get $200 for plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter and PCV valve? Not really trying to start something, just trying to figure out your source for these parts! Plug wires, about $40, plugs about $16, fuel filter, $4, air filter, $5, PCV valve, $3.50. That's $68.50, long shot from $200. Throw in a distributor cap and rotor for another $20, and all new vacuum lines - about $10-$15 in all. That still makes it below $100. Springs are about right cost wise. Throw the springs in and you're still below $200. If you're going to put springs in, it's best to always replace the lower control arm bushings and ball joints (since the control arm will be mostly removed to replace the springs anyway), and shocks. Cost of ball joints are about $19 each. Stock level shocks are about $20 each, more if you want something really good such as a variable rate or performance shock. Bushings are about $5 each so consider $20 there. $100 extra for those added parts which will bring part of your suspension back to normal and help to make that alignment count. I'd still check the idler arm, center link and tie rod ends to make sure they're in good shape, and also consider replacing the upper control arm bushings and upper ball joints as well - factor in another $60 for that - but at least then your suspension will be back where it should be.

Plugs may last 100k miles these days, but they didn't in 1987 and it's always advisable to stick to the manufacturer's maintenance schedule.

[94HeavyChevy]

Ya ur right, I did a tuneup on my 95 and I got some parts that were a little more expensive like taylor wires and a high flow air filter.

[rhandwor]

You have a lot of good advice and if you decide to do the job yourself. Buy a small angle grinder. Just grind against the rivet in the ball joint. Grind until its perfectly round when they drive the rivet it will be slightly tapered in the joint you will have to remove less than 1/8 inch from a appx. 1/4 inch thick ball joint. Then take a punch and drive out the remaining rivet. The new ones will bolt in. For the lower ball joint get a loaner ball joint press from Auto Zone or Advanced.
For the control arm bushings try Pep Boys as not all stores carry this tool.
http://www.tooltopia.com/ Search control arm. It will show a picture of the tool. Look at the spring tool this Auto Zone or Advanced,or Pep Boys should loan. As the shock has to come out use the angle grinder to grind against the flat of the nut when you reach the shaft the nut will come apart slightly and a long socket and ratchet will pull it off easily.
A parts store with a machine shop or press will do the control arm bushings if you take it in.
If doing front springs I would do the back springs also.

[Teddie]

I really do not have much automotive skills and I would like to keep the car for a few more years, but at least the parts do not look to expensive.

I bought the car off of Ebay in 9/07 for $510. I do not know when the last tuneup was and I do not know if the seller did one. I added about 2 quarts of oil over the 2K miles I drove in five months. The car also pulls to the right, but I don't care since all the family vehicles pull to one side or the other. I am going to get an estimate as well and see if repair cost is worth it or whether I should get another car, I really like this one so I would rather not.