crank, no start, no spark. What now?

[clumsysnake]

I got this beautiful old van to drive across the country in, but now I'm stuck in Atlanta cuz the thing won't start. I don't know much about cars but I'd like to take a hand at fixing it myself, it should be fun.

I think its some electrical problem but I can't seem to narrow it down.

This is what I know:
- 1990 fuel-injected E150, 6 cyl 4.9L, dual tanks (19gal I think?)
- the engine cranks
- 145k miles
- oil is low but existent. However its been 4000 miles since the last change.
- both fuel tanks have fuel
- I'm measuring 12v at the electrical input to the ignition coil
- I can get no spark from a spark tester OR a spark plug, grounded to the engine case. I've connected the tester to both the ignition coil wire and the distributor wire.
- the rotor turns
- eec module cable looks fine
- battery has juice, the headlights/interior lights come on full brightness
- there are no leaks
- a few days prior I had the engine cut out when I stopped at a red light, and took a little coaxing to restart it

Replaced:
-ignition coil
-ignition coil wire

Questions:
- Could the EEC module be busted? How do I test it?
- Given that I get a 12v signal into a new ignition coil, could it be anything else besides the distributor?
- how do I test the distributor?

Thanks!

[rhandwor]

Use a 12 volt test light make sure the coil positive has 12 volts. Place the test light on the coil negative have somebody try to crank the engine the light should blink. If it doesn't the pickup in the distributor is bad. You either need a tool or buy a rebuilt distributor. Auto Zone or Advanced will checkk the module free if you take it in they also sell a tool to remove it. If you pull the distributor use white out and mark where the rotor tip is located. Mark the rebuilt in the same spot so it can be lined up when you put the new one in.

[clumsysnake]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

Use a 12 volt test light make sure the coil positive has 12 volts. Place the test light on the coil negative have somebody try to crank the engine the light should blink. If it doesn't the pickup in the distributor is bad. You either need a tool or buy a rebuilt distributor. Auto Zone or Advanced will checkk the module free if you take it in they also sell a tool to remove it. If you pull the distributor use white out and mark where the rotor tip is located. Mark the rebuilt in the same spot so it can be lined up when you put the new one in.

You're saying to do this test with the 12v coil input plugged in? If so, how do I make contact when the leads aren't exposed?

or are you saying unplug the 12v input and put the test lamp probe directly on the disconnected coil? and clip the lamp to where...ground? or to the 12v battery?

The idea is that when the engine cranks it turns the rotor and provides an intermittent path to ground?

[clumsysnake]

also, why don't I get a spark when I put the spark tester directly on the wire from the ignition coil? I need the distributor to get a spark apparently? is there any way to safely test that I'm getting the proper voltage out of the ignition coil?

[rhandwor]

The coil is basically a transformer and a transformer won't work on DC power only AC. The pickup is like the old points. It opens and closes which momentarily grounds the coil. This fires the coil it each time it closes. The test light is hooked to the battery ground. Touch the positive cable it should blink as you try to start the car. If its blinking it should fire the coil.
To check spark remove a plug wire put a spark plug in it attach a jumper cable
attached to a good ground to the plug. Watch as somebody trys to start the car you can see the spark jump the gap.

[clumsysnake]

Also, is it possible to do a eec-iv KOEO test without running the engine first? obviously I can't warm it up since it doesn't start, but every guide I've seen says that's required.

[rhandwor]

You have to get it running to do your test. I just slide the the 12 volt test light along side the plug along the wire until it touches. Some people pierce the wire with a straight pin remove the pin and cover the hole with silicon.You also unplug the connector and use an ohm meter. It should go from zero to one as you crank the engine. Your measuring the wire from the distributor.
You have to do basic tests until you get it running.
If you have never got it running and are unsure about spark use a can of starting fluid spray into the air intake pull the hose next to the engine.
If it starts you have a fuel problem.

[clumsysnake]

okay with the lamp:

<pre> 
CONNECTION            OFF-ON-START
BATT+ to coil-        light-no light-no light
BATT+ to coil+        light-no light-no light
BATT- to coil-          no light-light-dimmed
BATT- to coil+        no light-light-dimmed
</pre>

seems to go from about 11.5v to 9.5v or so when I start.

So does this mean the distributor isn't grounding properly or is there a short somewhere. strange how both ends of the coil have the same behavior...

[rhandwor]

Go to U-pull it a junk yard they have two locations in Atlanta off Moreland Ave and Buford Hwy.Norcross. They are the cheapest yard in Atlanta. Take your tools and
get a wheel barrow. Find a Ford the same engine size and the connections the same size. Buy the whole distributor with,cap rotor,and module. Also buy a relay for the EEC system. I've had both bad pickups and a relay losing voltage for your type of problem. This will be a lot cheaper than a rebuilt distributor.
Look along side the engine for the relay with a plastic case. Also buy a coil not all new are bad.

[clumsysnake]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

Go to U-pull it a junk yard they have two locations in Atlanta off Moreland Ave and Buford Hwy.Norcross. They are the cheapest yard in Atlanta. Take your tools and
get a wheel barrow. Find a Ford the same engine size and the connections the same size. Buy the whole distributor with,cap rotor,and module. Also buy a relay for the EEC system. I've had both bad pickups and a relay losing voltage for your type of problem. This will be a lot cheaper than a rebuilt distributor.
Look along side the engine for the relay with a plastic case. Also buy a coil not all new are bad.

Ah sweet. I was wondering if there was a junkyard around. You're essentially saying swap out parts until it works? You think its shorting somewhere? I have new parts actually, if I could figure out where the short was I could just swap in the one right part.

[rhandwor]

Use your ohm meter and check if it goes from zero to one when somebody is cranking the vehicle. This is the plug to the distributor.
I was basically telling you how to buy at this yard. If you set all parts down they charge for each one. If you pull the distributor with everything attached they charge it as the one item. It used to be $25.00 distributor $3.00 relay,
$3.00 coil. $150.00 engine $ 50.00 head $25.00 intake. I'm sure prices have went up somewhat. If you buy a few big items they throw in the small ones.
Still you probably would get out for under $50.00 I was going away this morning and I thought wanted to get it running.
http://www.alldata.com/ sells a good manual for your vehicle for $25.00 per a years subscription. Haynes is good as they have pictures for basic checks.
They will tell you exactly to ohm a coil to check it out. I keep spare parts at home for my vehicles. With the price of fuel it saves money if you need a cheap part it costs me $20.00 for a round trip so I buy everything I might need.

[clumsysnake]

Got it! ignition module was busted! tested the old one at advanced auto parts, it failed, and got a replacement for $38. AFTER having to make an initial trip just for the custom tool to remove it.

Thats a good idea about spare parts. Now that I have wheels I can actually drive out there It would be very costly or impossible to get to pull-u-part otherwise. There's also a u-pull-it on 1244 higgens st sw, slightly closer to downtown.

Thanks for all your help man! Gonna try getting a real manual from that site...

[rhandwor]

Good you found the problem and got it running.