IL 4cyl - Oil drain plug problem

[Poper]

First post on an auto forum. Thanks in advance for your insights.

A local LOF outfit tells me my drain plug is "worn out" and claims no fault. I had no leaks before my visit to their shop and now I do - at the drain plug. The threads are "gone". The pan appears to be cast aluminum.

I have owned the vehicle since new and it has been serviced regularly for 105k miles. I expect to get another 100k. I have been driving and working on cars since 1970. In recent years (last 10 or so) I have mostly had my work done by others due to time constraints. This is the first time I have heard of threads on a drain plug "wearing out" without having been overtightened or cross threaded.

All I want is my car repaired to its "before" state.

Am I all wet? Any suggestions?

Poper

[Johnny Mullet]

Find out who did the last oil change and explain your issue since they were the last ones who took it out.

[toyoglenn]

I work in a dealership and we come across this alot. On a vehicle with high mileage think about how many times that oil plug has come off that bolt is probably the most frequent bolt to come on and off. With that in mind how many time has that bolt been over tightend and over the years that bolt hole takes abuse and aluminum is a soft metal. Now if you have your car servicd at the same place every time they should at least meet you half way i.e. you buy the pan and they no charge labor. Now if you have it changed at different places you are probably going to have to eat this one . Either way i suggest that you look up the torque specification for you drain plug and request every time you change your oil to have the drain plug torqued to that spec. Also I suggest keeping all of your oil change records to show proof that you requested the plug be torqued and if this happens again they will have to repair it for free. Hope this helps you.

[backerm1]

thats why i change my own oil

[DonSor]

If correctly done, I don't see why the drain plug can't last a lifetime. I had a Olds Delta 88 with over 250K miles and I've had no problem with the drain plug. Of course I changed my own oil and filter and use new copper washer everytime. Obviously, if it did not leak previous to the oil change but started leaking after, the "mechanic" must have screwed up such as cross threading or overtightening. I'll make a fuss if I were you. Is there anyway of re-threading one size up and install the appropriate larger crain plug. Or, new drain pan.

[Poper]

Thank all of you for your replies.

I got my car back Saturday. Total bill including all materials, labor and discounts was $857.14. About what I expected because the engine has to be raised to remopve the oil pan and Ford flat rate time is 8 hours for oil pan R&R.

I undertand the nature of aluminum and other materials. In a past life, I, too, worked in and managed a service station. I have also done time in a Dodge dealer's shop on the line. My primary beef isn't that things wear out. If done properly and correctly, the drain plug threads should out last the engine. With that said, I also understand no one is perfect and nobody intentionally overtightens or cross threads a drain plug.
I also know you don't just run a self-threading, oversized plug back in the hole and call it good. Aluminum is very intollerant of such treatment and has a tendency to crack because the induced stresses create stress risers. A few heat/cool cycles and add a modicum of vibration and BINGO! A crack develops.

However, how an error or issue is treated says a whole bunch about the shop. This particular shop knew there was an issue. They applied a sealant to the plug and threads and sent it out the door without comment. When brought to their attention: "Not OUR fault!"
Now, if said shop had instead said, "Mr. Poper, we noted an issue with your drain plug. Apparently the threads are wearing out and it may begin to leak. If you or Mrs. Poper notice drippings where you park, a repair will be necessary. Let us know and we can perform the repair, or refer you to a shop for repair". I would have been much more understanding. There is a potential problem and I am alerted to it. As it is, it appears a mistake or incompetence was deliberately covered up and/or ignored. IMHO, this is not good business.

I have decided to ask the "stripper" shop an opportunity to participate in the final bill. I will accept a 50-50 participation, but less than that, and I am considering a small claims court suit.

Am I being unreasonable?

Thanks again,
Poper

[mrmikey]

Am I being unreasonable?

Don't know if I'd use the word unreasonable, I think unrealistic is more like it.
You can't actually prove who did the damage or indeed if it was one person or a combination of time and slight overtightenng by all involved.
Would I be bothered, no. Would I replace the oil pan, no.
I too work with aluminum being a weldor by trade and working both with new material and repairing old, corroded, broken bits and pieces of everything imaginable.
Could you have retapped the oil drain plug hole, most definetly, I 've done it and similar repairs, numerous times and if done right using a proper tap and not a self tapping plug you have no problem.
I'd use a tap instead of a self tapper. Reason being a tap is made to, well, tap and tap only, you're not tying to get a tap to plug a hole nor are you using a plug to tap a hole.
Providing you have the correct size hole and enough meat to tap meaning the boss or area to be tapped is thick/big enough diameter to fully encase the hole you'd be alright.
Just my thoughts, no disrepect intended.....Mike

[Poper]

Mike,
Thank you for your input. No offense intended, none taken.

Providing you have the correct size hole and enough meat to tap meaning the boss or area to be tapped is thick/big enough diameter to fully encase the hole you'd be alright.

Upon inspecting the old oil pan, I believe an operation you describe may be possible, but it would require re-drilling and re-tapping the drain hole. The Ford dealership Service Department does not recommend repairing this problem. (No big surprise there.) There is approximately 1-1/4" thickness from interior sump surface to exterior surface in direct line with the hole. Wall thickness at its narrowest point, before re-drilling, is approximately 3/8" to 7/16".
It would be very difficult (maybe not possible) to re-drill the drain hole with the pan in place.
The majority of the cost is the labor factor (Ford Time is 8 hrs.) for R&R oil pan.

This particular shop knew there was an issue. They applied a sealant to the plug and threads and sent it out the door without comment.

This is where I have the issue. Bring it to the customer's attention and explain the condition and repair options. When it goes south, then "I told you so", has them covered and options previously explained for repair come into play. As it was handled, it looks like a "lets cover-it-up-and-hope-the-next-guy-has-to-deal-with-it" game.
It's been some time since I worked in the industry, but customer service hasn't really changed for the better. JMHO

No offense intended.

Poper

[Poper]

Update:
After reviewing the damaged oil pan which had been removed and replaced with a new one, the company that did the original oil and filter change stepped up and reimbursed the costs directly related to the ruined pan. They did this entirely on their own upon inspection of the damaged part without the threat of small claims court, lawyers, etc.

I am pleased and pleasantly surprised to find there are still some people in the business with old fashioned integrity!

Poper

[DonSor]

It just makes good business sense. No doubt that the outfit which did the oil change was responsible for the problem. Not only did they make a mechanical mistake but they were in a process of making a worst business mistake. Bravo Zulu for putting up what's right. Although you got your money, an apology would have been appropriate in thei case. Afterall, because of their fortitude, they may have attracted a few more customers.